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Rule 69 - where are the limits |
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Topic: Rule 69 - where are the limits Posted: 29 May 12 at 6:44pm |
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What you need to remember when you do that is that someone else may take offence who is sailing close to you at which point it 'could' be construed as bring the sport in to disrepute...petty I know! Definitely agree with the having a word with those in charge. I know we will never get rid of it (everyone swears) but, from what has been said so far, it would appear it is a little to common place (IMO).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Mister Nick
Far too distracted from work Joined: 01 Aug 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 389 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 12 at 6:55pm | |
I think it's fine to swear about what you're doing or if things are going wrong, but it becomes unacceptable as soon as it becomes name calling or trying to be deliberately offensive and hurtful towards other people.
For example... I have no problem with someone fluffing up a spinnaker drop and shouting obscenities at themself, I have no reason to be offended because it's nothing to do with me. If I'm bouncing the kite up the rig in 35 knots and the guys in the pit haven't tailed the halyard then I'd say it's fine after a couple of polite requests to order them to 'TAIL THE F****NG HALYARD!' On the other hand, I'd be very upset if another boat started calling me nasty names or someone onboard my boat told me I was an f'ing idiot etc. That really isn't right. We're all out racing to enjoy ourselves with other likeminded people and the moment you start bullying and upsetting other people, it really does become pointless. Edited by Mister Nick - 29 May 12 at 6:56pm |
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bustinben
Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 12 at 7:15pm | |
The first example was at oneself, just to clear that up
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themeaningoflife
Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 May 11 Location: Essex/ Kent Online Status: Offline Posts: 212 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 12 at 9:18pm | |
Just out of interest, which of the Feva events were you at when you heard all this? In my experiences on the water, at the pointy end (with Debbie Darling, ex Olympic Silver medallist around) the racing is perfectly controlled, since people know that to win in such a big fleet they just need to concentrate on themselves. Admittedly with so many of the Darling clan at the front of the fleet maybe they just don't want to offend their Mum/ Aunt
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 12 at 10:18pm | |
Oh, I see - that makes sense. I didn't think you'd be so hard on yourself! |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 12 at 11:50pm | |
In his original post, Gordon asked three questions, which posts in the topic, possibly influenced by my attempts to set out my personal ground rules, have drifted away from a little.
So in an attempt to get some answers, I'll give mine, in three separate posts.
Here's my answer to Question 1 (Questions 2 and 3 in separate posts to follow).
Where do you all think the limit should be?
I think it is very difficult to answer this question in any sort of general terms.
Take a look at the RYA Guidance, helpfully cited by PEd at post #3. The RYA says that bad language may or may not be subject of rule 69 action and if it is, it may be sanctioned by anything in the whole range of responses open to a protest committeeranging from a warning, up to exclusion from all races in an event.
Clearly where 'the limit' is differs greatly with circumstances or context.
I think the best way of getting a feel for where the limit might be is by describing and discussing fairly concrete examples. Some posts in this topic have already provided such examples and some discussion.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 12 at 12:13am | |
In his original post, Gordon asked three questions, which posts in the topic, possibly influenced by my attempts to set out my personal ground rules, have drifted away from a little.
I have just posted my answer to Gordon's first question for people to discuss.
Here's my answer to Gordon's second question
Have standards of what is acceptable changed?
For starters, it might be said that what most people normally do represents what is 'acceptable'.
What is 'acceptable' is not defined by what various well-meaning people, with the improvement of society at heart, say is or is not acceptable.
I think that adults and kids around sailing boats use rude words just about the same as when I was a kid around sailing boats 40 years ago. Maybe a little more often, maybe a little louder, maybe, thanks to American TV and movies, with a little more anatomical imagination, but not all that much different.
What has changed more appreciably is:
So, with your indulgence, having thought that bit through a little, the key change is that we more honestly recognise that people use foul language, and consequently 'hear' the use of foul language more often (when previously we would have pretended we didn't hear it at all). Having thus massively complicated the issue, I guess the simple answer is, Yes, standards have changed: foul language is now more common, four letter f*** and c*** words are now as common as 'bloody' and 'damn' used to be, and to the extent that they are common, should be considered more acceptable than they once were.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 12 at 12:32am | |
In his original post, Gordon asked three questions, which posts in the topic, possibly influenced by my attempts to set out my personal ground rules, have drifted away from a little.
I have just posted my answer to Gordon's first and second question for people to discuss.
Here's my answer to Gordon's third question
When do you think it appropriate that sanctions be imposed?
Before giving my rather legalistic answer, I'd like to remind everybody that I'm all for clubs and event organising authorities making their evironments 'family-friendly', if that's what they want, by suitable rules against foul language and other bad manners clearly stated in their NOR or SI. Such NOR or SI would primarily to establishing, or mandating that all or some specific use of foul language was to be considered 'gross' bad manners.
It's appropriate for sanctions to be imposed for the breach of good manners constiuted by using foul language when a protest committee from its own observations or a report:
Bear in mind that a 'sanction' imposed by a protest committee under rule 69.1 includes a warning with no other action, and there's nothing to stop a protest committee taking account of any previous warnings a competitor might have received. |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 12 at 12:38am | |
Why?/Why not?
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 12 at 12:46am | |
Why would it be any more 'surprising' than standing outside a school playground, or the window of a police station recreation room, or a meeting of your club sailing committee?
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