New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: The best racing sailor ever - The poll
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The best racing sailor ever - The poll
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
Poll Question: The best racing sailor ever
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
32 [44.44%]
25 [34.72%]
1 [1.39%]
2 [2.78%]
3 [4.17%]
1 [1.39%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [8.33%]
1 [1.39%]
1 [1.39%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Telltale View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 03 May 12
Location: Cardiff
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The best racing sailor ever - The poll
    Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:40am
I have 2 problems with the poll, firstly whilst i don't deny all of those listed have a right to be there but how do you compare Ben Ainslie with Rodney Pattison or Paul Elvstrom when we know that our knowledge of Ben Ainslie is coloured by You Tube footage and 'live tracking'. Secondly, contentious I know, but are we really saying Shirley Robertson or Ellen Macarthur don't even get a mention!
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Rupert

Anybody else here feeling like an underachiever as we discuss all these sailing greats?

Robbie Naish got me thinking - partly about why he never crossed into dinghies or cats at all (or did he?) but mainly about how good his video RIP was.

He started out in the little Hobie Monocat....the prototype for the Vortex? Smile His dad won the second Hobie 16 nationals, before the family moved to Hawaii, so he had a good sailing heritage.

He didn't do any dinghy or cat sailing years ago, but his heritage in light wind sailing on one design longboards meant that he had plenty of tactical nous and he's very smart and analytical there's not much doubt he could have done well - but apparently he's still out there in the waves and having fun on boards.

h

I've been lucky enough to sail against some of the names put forward for the list (well, in the case of Peter Blake we saw his maxi for several minutes before finishing a day or two behind Embarrassed) and I would have to rank Robby way, way up there. However, I have to agree with the posters who say that the difference in eras and types makes it impossible to judge who is better.

PS - I've never seen a Monocat, but I have to say I had a go on the similar Hobie Bravo and thought it was a great little funboat. Will that admission get me banned, or merely snubbed? Tongue
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:43am
I don't think the kiters are very happy that in order for them to be Olympic it was Windsurfing that was dropped since the two sports draw on the same types, many were or still are windsurfers.

We would rather see those silly old slow boats from a long forgotten era kicked out why do there have to be so many of them? One for men and one for women should be enough then we'd see something designed that might actually be relevant to the world today if there could only be one type of boat.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:45am
When I look at what Ainslie has achieved this week....then look back at the post I started recently about was he too small............It has to be Ben.
Back to Top
gordon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Sep 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:46am
Ainslie has yet to reach the level of acheivement that Elvestrom acheived before his "career break" - a nervous breakdown caused by burnout. We'll have to wait and see what happens in the second part of his career. Will Ainslie still be winning medals in classes like the Tornado at the age of 57?

Question - anyone have a list of Dennis Conners reults - his website claims 28 world championship wins
Gordon
Back to Top
gordon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Sep 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 9:50am

Gordon
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Telltale

Secondly, contentious I know, but are we really saying Shirley Robertson or Ellen Macarthur don't even get a mention!

Fair point, but while Shirley's two gold is a fantastic achievement, it could also be that even allowing for limited opportunities for women, it's hard to rate her higher than Valentijn Mankin (gold in three different classes plus a silver), Schumann (3 gold, 1 silver), Torben Grael (2 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze, 1 LV Cup, 1 Volvo race).

EDIT - on the other hand, like women in other arenas, female sailors do seem to suffer more from the career issues caused by having kids; the guys get it easy in that way.

And while Dame Ellen is also great in many ways, how can a racing record that's mainly one second place and one round the world record be placed ahead of someone like Joyon, who has broken the same record twice and a lot of other races, or Frank Cammas, who was a F-18 world champ runner-up as well as RTW record holder and 5 time ORMA champ etc.



Edited by Chris 249 - 18 May 12 at 10:13am
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6649 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 10:10am
Originally posted by 2547

...the days of turning up and winning a worlds with a new idea are long passed except in development classes

au contraire. AIUI one of Ainslie's big things is that he's one of those who devoped a whole new way of getting downwind in waves with single sail boats.

I agree on Naish: he should be on the poll. Within his field his record is comparable with Elvstroms.

One thing on Elvstrom via Ainslie - its well documented that Elvstrom lost a slice of his peak years to the breakdown alluded to by Gordon. Without that temperament issue the smart money is he'd be as far ahead of anyone else as Bradman is in cricket. But Ainslie lacks that issue and has a better temperament for continual high pressure events, then maybe that's an argument to consider him a better *racing sailor* - at least in that respect.

Edited by JimC - 18 May 12 at 10:18am
Back to Top
Mark Jardine View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 04
Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 10:15am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by 2547

...the days of turning up and winning a worlds with a new idea are long passed except in development classes

au contraire. AIUI one of Ainslie's big things is that he's one of those who devoped a whole new way of getting downwind in waves with single sail boats.


I totally agree - watching the video of Ben going downwind in Qingdao was awe-inspiring. Every wave he seemed to pull 2 boat lengths on his competitors.

p.s. I had to google AIUI - I must brush up on my FLA's!
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 12 at 10:30am
Originally posted by Mark Jardine

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by 2547

...the days of turning up and winning a worlds with a new idea are long passed except in development classes

au contraire. AIUI one of Ainslie's big things is that he's one of those who devoped a whole new way of getting downwind in waves with single sail boats.


I totally agree - watching the video of Ben going downwind in Qingdao was awe-inspiring. Every wave he seemed to pull 2 boat lengths on his competitors.

p.s. I had to google AIUI - I must brush up on my FLA's!
Whilst Ben is clearly the downwind master I think that is a GBR one eyed view on life.
 
When he started out Scheidt was the downwind master and before him it was Glenn Bourke (3 x laser world champ) who has yet to get a mention on this thread ...
 
Being good downwind in waves isn't quite the same as being the first one to hike out ... or having a kicker ...
 
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy