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Finish line, Direction from last mark definition

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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 6:56pm
Further to the 'hook' finish scenario, I will pose a hypothetical situation where an upwind finish line is set midsteam against a strong current in light winds. It would be reasonable for boats to cheat the current and sail above the line then sail out into the current and 'hook' down around the finish line. The 'hook' finish there is purely a product of sailing a  'proper course' and not the setting of the course marks.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 6:57pm
Andy, I think in those circumstances a PC ought to give redress of finishing time to any boats that finished in the wrong direction. Clearly it was very confusing...
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drifter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote drifter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by JimC

Not necessarily, no Rupert.
Take this as an example of the common error.
All marks left to port, start and finish to be between ID and 4.



You finish by touching the finish line with ID on your port side and 4 on your Starboard side, because the from the last mark, 3, to the finish line, 4, is in that direction.

Which way you rounded 4 on previous laps is irrelevant.


I've been here. Imagine 3-4 is a starboard tack run. Hull leaves 4 to port, boom end leaves it to starboard. Have you finished?
Stewart
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 8:07pm
Stewart: I think you'll find that the definition of finishing answers your question.

I don't think its possible to overstress how important it is to study the definitions: more so than the individual rules really...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 8:31pm

Aye. Of course, it would rather help if ROs/course setters, especially at club level, knew this definition- as it would help avoid the situation arising in the first place


-_
Al
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 12 at 5:53pm
If there is a dog leg to get to the finish mark the "direction of the course from the last mark" would be the direction a boat can sail from the last mark, not some theoretical overland course.

On the other hand if boats have to sail up tide of the finish line before coming down to finish this does not change the "direction from the next mark".





Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote drifter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 12 at 8:06pm
I think we're all agreed-hook finishes are extremely undesirable!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 12 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by drifter

I think we're all agreed-hook finishes are extremely undesirable!

No, they're not undesirable: they're impossible. It is genuinely impossible to set a hook finish in a race held under the RRS.

Unfortunately that doesn't stop people trying!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 12 at 10:14pm
OK Gordon, here's something that mischievously occurs to me... Finish is a dead run, with a low mark at the port end of the line. A boat goes to the port end of the finish line and passes the mark on the port end leaving it to starboard, but the end of her boom, in the normal position, crosses the line on the correct side of the mark and without the mainsheet or anything else making contact as the boom passes over the mark. Absent any further local SIs I rather think the boat has finished correctly.

Having said that if you finish in such a way that its impossible for a normally positioned RC to judge whether you did finish or not, then I think you deserve everything you get...

Edited by JimC - 14 Apr 12 at 10:15pm
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 7:31am
Originally posted by gordon

If there is a dog leg to get to the finish mark the "direction of the course from the last mark" would be the direction a boat can sail from the last mark, not some theoretical overland course.

On the other hand if boats have to sail up tide of the finish line before coming down to finish this does not change the "direction from the next mark".





 
Thanks Gordon. As I added, there was a navigable channel (had anybody used it) which would have given an approach to the line from the 'correct' side. Given that a boat could have sailed an alternative course, would you agree that in this perverse situation case 82 applied?  
 
As a postscript, I think someone must have lodged a protest, because some boats in the fast fleet have been given redress.
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