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Finish line, Direction from last mark definition

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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 7:42am
Originally posted by JimC

OK Gordon, here's something that mischievously occurs to me... Finish is a dead run, with a low mark at the port end of the line. A boat goes to the port end of the finish line and passes the mark on the port end leaving it to starboard, but the end of her boom, in the normal position, crosses the line on the correct side of the mark and without the mainsheet or anything else making contact as the boom passes over the mark. Absent any further local SIs I rather think the boat has finished correctly.

Having said that if you finish in such a way that its impossible for a normally positioned RC to judge whether you did finish or not, then I think you deserve everything you get...
 
Jim, I just love these mischevous situations however contrived, because they fully test the integrity of the rules (and definitions).
I agree with you that under the definition of finishing, the boat will have finished correctly as soon as the end of the boom (in the normal sailing position) crossed the line on the correct side. There is no obligation for the whole boat to cross the line, but they would have to 'clear' the line without then fouling the mark with the boom end/sheet, otherwise they would have to then take a penalty before 'finishing'.
 
EDIT; Stuart, AKA Drifter posted that exact poser (for real) earlier on in the thread!


Edited by Andymac - 15 Apr 12 at 7:46am
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 8:53am
Would it be covered by Rule 28? It may meet the definition of finishing, but does it meet he requirements for sailing the course.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 9:43am
Thanks for providing the jury here with a subject of discussion.

The boat has finished, however she has not sailed the course and has broken rule 28.1. She may correct that error and finish a second time.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 10:07am
Please could you elucidate Gordon: I'm sure you're right, or at least certainly ought to be right, but I couldn't make a distinction in my head between that and a boat which crosses the line with one item of equipment in its correct location and then drifts back... Consider a line set almost parallel to the last leg and a boat in which the boom end crosses the line right in the middle to finish and then the boat doesn't cross the line any further but returns to the course side. and then sails round the end of the line.



28 SAILING THE COURSE

28.1 A boat shall start, [yes] leave each mark on the required side in the correct order, [yes]and finish,[yes] so that a string representing her track after starting and until finishing would when drawn taut
(a) pass each mark on the required side, [yes]
(b) touch each rounding mark, and [yes]
(c) pass between the marks of a gate from the direction of the previous
mark. [yes]
She may correct any errors to comply with this rule. After finishing
she need not cross the finishing line completely

Now the string doesn't touch the finishing line, but I'm not sure it needs to...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by JimC

Please could you elucidate Gordon: I'm sure you're right, or at least certainly ought to be right, but I couldn't make a distinction in my head between that and a boat which crosses the line with one item of equipment in its correct location and then drifts back... Consider a line set almost parallel to the last leg and a boat in which the boom end crosses the line right in the middle to finish and then the boat doesn't cross the line any further but returns to the course side. and then sails round the end of the line.



28 SAILING THE COURSE

28.1 A boat shall start, [yes] leave each mark on the required side in the correct order, [yes]and finish,[yes] so that a string representing her track after starting and until finishing would when drawn taut
(a) pass each mark on the required side, [yes]
(b) touch each rounding mark, and [yes]
(c) pass between the marks of a gate from the direction of the previous
mark. [yes]
She may correct any errors to comply with this rule. After finishing
she need not cross the finishing line completely

Now the string doesn't touch the finishing line, but I'm not sure it needs to...
 
Ditto, since there is no obligation for the boat to pass through the line to 'finish', I can't see how the boat has failed to sail the course. Once she has 'finished', any course obligations end.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote drifter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 12 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by drifter

I think we're all agreed-hook finishes are extremely undesirable!

No, they're not undesirable: they're impossible. It is genuinely impossible to set a hook finish in a race held under the RRS.

Unfortunately that doesn't stop people trying!


That's really interesting. I've spent all day imagining the scenarios involved, and have offered to write something for our club newsletter as hook finishes are all too common. Thanks for your advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 12 at 9:03am
So a finish line can be exactly parallel to the direction of the last mark (so you turn slightly at the ODM to cross) but as soon as it is at a negative angle, you would automatically cross in the other direction, even if you had been using the ODM as a mark of the course up to then?

Just getting this clear in my head...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 12 at 9:45am
Yes, that is in fact how the rulebook defines it.
-_
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 12 at 10:39am
Precisely Rupert, nice way to explain it, I shall have to remember that...
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