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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Dec 06 at 8:01am

Originally posted by catmandoo

other thing perhaps localised to sunny scotland is most keelboats up here can't find enough crew .

That's true for most owners in most places, I think.

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catmandoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 06 at 10:53am

certainly not my experience on either count , but you guessed that from above , shame that some folk would rather race with those that are prepared to pay - doesn't neccesarily make them the best crew and if you race you want the best you can get

 

other thing perhaps localised to sunny scotland is most keelboats up here can't find enough crew .

Only boat I know of charging/ splitting costs , most folk wouldn't be seen dead on .

 

There are of course the scenario where a group of folk charter a boat to race and split costs .

 

I was lucky when young as I was a dinghy sailor and at that time dinghy sailors could waltz onto the helm of a racing keelboat and do well straight away compared to lifetime keelboat helms , don't think that is the case now to such an extent .

 

When I race I want to race @100% and thats why I race my cat , can afford that , I cruise my keelboat - can't afford to race it , and race on others who can , works for me

 

enough of my babble

 

happy xmas



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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 06 at 7:26am
Originally posted by damp_freddie

I think splitting fees and even whole season costs comes at another price for the owner and relationships on board

There is an expectation with pay-to-play that you make more calls and drive now and again.

Exactly right. I've been at both ends of this relationship. If I'm crew and all that is expected of me is that I turn up and sail, then it's the owners game and I will attempt to shut up and do what I'm told (which doesn't come naturally). But if I'm contributing significantly either financially or in terms of hours spent helping with maintenance and campaign organisation, then I expect input into the programme, crew selection and so on. Owners can't expect to have it both ways.

I have also been an owner. My view was that I paid for the the boat and all bills directly related to the boat. But I expected food, shoreside accomodation and similar living-expenses bills to be split. Grown-ups shouldn't expect other people to pay for their holidays. 

Obviously once you get to grand-prix boats and professional crew, that's another situation. But that's the tiny tip of a very big iceberg.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 06 at 8:33pm

I think splitting fees and even whole season costs comes at another price for the owner and relationships on board

There is an expectation with pay-to-play that you make more calls and drive now and again.

 

I certainly don't expect dinners etc paid for but it is a nice touch- and the odd brown envelope for delivery or flights is cool

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 9:21pm
i have never paid to sail and we are not paying for the fastnet this year, but some of the boats in our class some of the 40.7 are going for massive charter rates and some of the chalange boats are charging alot.  all i have eva had to pay was the occational bacon butty
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catmandoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 6:06pm

No problem ,

if you want to pay thats up to you.

If however when I was young daft and keen and raced 8 months out 12 on others boats  there is no way I could have afforded it , I could barely keep myself in swally , though the owners DID look after us pretty well , sailed plenty cool boats from micro tonners to 50 footers , crew dinners were legendary .

You will be shocked at how many free receptions , goodies etc are handed out to keelboat events too , dinghy sailing is WAY behind , you could eat and drink on the sponsors for weeks if you were lucky .

Good to hear that when I get really decripid and hang my cat shoes up theres a new generation of folk coming through cash rich and ready to fund keelboat campaigns , but I'll be dribbling before I go back to that full time .

As a matter of interest do you guys pay sliding scales , like do the poor sods who sit on the rail pay as much as the cockpit , what about the foredeck , do they actually pay to get ingorned ,shouted at and generally risk their lives.

Wonder how much those guys in Americas cup pay to sail those mighty boats ,

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote foaminatthedeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 5:23pm
I don't see the problem with an owner asking for money to help run the boat, as long as they ask for it before any committment has been made by the crew. The status quo seems to be that in return for the 'skills' as crew people get a free ride. Long may this continue. Having said that if I had the chance to sail something cool then may be I'd be willing to contribute, it can't be much more expensive than running a racing condition dinghy! 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 2:32pm

never paid a penny to sail on anothers boat , did about six years solid starting in teens in keelboats , inshore and offshore , still race occaisonally , but prefer my own cat .

 

I would never expect anyone to pay to sail on a boat I own ,nor would I pay to sail on anothers . although up here we are considered mean ! , its pretty rare for folks to ask crew to pay ,its all part of buying and racing boats , you do get joint ownerships which can work.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 06 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by 2savage

I've heard that skippers in the UK actually CHARGE people to race with them....I've been racing here in the USA for 20 years and have never heard of such a thing.
So you expect somebody else to pay for your hobby.

That does seem to be a very common attitude in the US. That's probably why its so much more of a rich man's sport there than here... You get discussions on SA about how the owner should be expected to shell out for all the meals, all the hotel bills (3 star or better please), free T shorts and goodness knows what else as well as picking up all the costs of the boat...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 06 at 9:10pm

Originally posted by 2savage

I've heard that skippers in the UK actually CHARGE people to race with them.  Really?     I've been racing here in the USA for 20 years and have never heard of such a thing.  How can anyone have the audacity to get other people to pay your bills?  IMO if you can't afford to race what you have then get something smaller that you CAN afford.

 

I don't have a problem with people organising a season or six on something that stretches them financially yet keeping the team on by asking them to contribute to race entries, shore accomodation, food etc

Happens in the US too no doubt.

What does ps me off is being asked by the owner to come along with no notion of any costs, asked later to pay a share of entry, delivery diesel,  and not being allowed to stay on the effing boat!

I have stormed off from two and learnt to ask the crew before I commit to penny pinchers- actually prefer sports boats to 40ft+ now on these grounds- you know you are likely to pay for a bed atleast!

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