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New PY Website |
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chrisg
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893 |
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Topic: New PY Website Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 10:12pm |
Craiggo,
I thought originally that the site was going to cut old numbers off and add new in to it, but as it works the numbers out using a different method I think its best just to start again. However, I can see this causing problems to any clubs that had already adjusted numbers based on the old website. Although not sure there were many to be honest. I reuploaded every single race I had in the old system (500+) to the new site in about an hour and a half. With the new upload from sailwave file (not uploading from inside sailwave) you can do a whole series at a time and it runs the calcs on every race immediately. The whole site is much less labour intensive. Let us know how you get on. Chris |
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craiggo
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 7:52pm |
I'm a bit gutted that none of the historic data has been ported across. Are we honestly expected to go back and reload all historic data?
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AlexM
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 1:02pm |
Thanks for all the replies and the hard work!
I think i'm going to go with everyone else and anything over the 0.3 we'll change and assess at the end of each series. So it's RS400 from 949 -> 940 Solo from 1153 -> 1147 Seem reasonable Alex |
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Simon Lovesey
Far too distracted from work Joined: 30 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 349 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 11:17am |
Pleased people are starting to find the new PYS site useful, as aready stated we are very much in early stages of release and refining the system as we get a better understanding of the vast number of variables at play here.
With regard to the reports, these are built in advance (there are many more automatic calculations than V1) - this means if you are jumping around you are likely to see a lag in the data - again this is all part of the refinement process and we are working on improvements in this area. New logins are being released on a batch basis - this allows us to manage and take on board comments received in a practical manner, rather than be flooded with the same comment. The staggered release also allows us to manage server loading. The good news is once you have received your login it takes no time at all to upload and process several years of data - so thank you for your patience. |
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www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management |
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marke
Far too distracted from work Joined: 16 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 211 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 10:58am |
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Chris/Alex The confidence factor is a composite factor looking at sample size, the distribution shape, and the historical trend. Each of these is a useful measure of the validity of the data. The tricky bit is joining the factors together to give a simple to understand single factor. As Andy said in his email, this aspect of the CF will need to be tuned when the PYS has suficient data to be able to get some meaningful data out of it. The issues that you and AlexM are seeing look to me like an issue with the individual factor scaling. When the pressure is off Simon to get the site released I'll take a look at some specific datasets and see if I can spot any problems with the algorithm or the implementation. Absolutely endorse Chris' comments about using it as a relative factor until the RYA has had chance to tune it a little - looking at the the data shown, even a low factor is better than no data at all, or murmurings in the bar Mark |
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chrisg
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 10:02am |
Not sure Alex, I'll ask the question. I only have some classes on 0.4(low), then others jump to 0.7 (high). I thought I had some in between but haven't. It may be that we need to rethink the wording of low, medium and high. Any thoughts on what would be better? Perhaps 0.1-0.2 - low, 0.3-0.4 - reasonably, 0.5-0.6 - fairly, 0.7 and above - highly.
I use firefox and i definitely get the problem of not all classes showing up sometimes. I just logged in to check my confidence factors and had to hit refresh about 4 times before they all appeared. Definitely something that needs investigating. Something I forgot to mention earlier is that when you upload, I think the PYS site does the race claculations immediately but only updates the report for the classes at regular intervals. So if you upload and want to check immediately it may not have updated the report page, thats what the floating refresh button is for on the report page. Chris Edited by chrisg - 30 Mar 12 at 10:12am |
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AlexM
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 9:02am |
Hi Chris,
I think it’s an IE issue because it doesn’t seem to happen on Firefox or Safari. When does it change to medium confidence? I think it’s pretty hard to convince people that we should be changing the number if it says low against it. Alex |
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chrisg
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 8:23am |
Alex,
Sometimes I get the problem with not all of the classes appearing in the reports page too. I'll see if Simon has an answer for that, but usually if I press f5 (refresh) not the button on the webpage my classes come back. Dont know if its clicking on reports too soon after logging in or something simple like that. Glad you have found the site useful. I'd say numbers with a confidence factor of 0.3 which may still be called low on the site are considerably better than finger in the air stuff so saying you'll adjust when you reach that level is fair I'd say. I'll be suggesting something similar to my club. I've got over 530 races in for my club and only get 4 classes with a confidence factor of 0.7. Havent yet managed to achieve anything greater than that. I think Andys release email, or it may be in the help files, stated that the confidence factor algorithm will be being looked at by the RYA once there is more data in the system but they are pretty confident it is a good starting point. Mark E helped produce it so may have more details. Mark - any thoughts? For those of you guys who havent got logins, I have been pestering Andy on a daily basis so hopefully you will get them soon. Any probs please ask. Chris |
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Oli
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Mar 12 at 11:56pm |
We have discussed changing at 0.3cf due to it being a good amount of data for the sample size. When we can pool like venues in to the system, and the cf goes up we will use a higher cf before we change, but as it is the boats are currently performing to these numbers and as such should be changed. Now if it turns out to be too harsh the data will go the other way and we will change it again. Its great that the system now reflects this, but I think that having a pre defined low medium and high value against the cf number to be like the old style of defining the yardsticks with primary secondary numbers etc which will scare people off changing numbers.
As for the blaze moving as much as it does, I have to say that it is probably along with the fireball the most suited boat to our stretch of water, therefore it will perform above its percieved performance range for most clubs. There hasn't been a lot of all in races at the club where either a blaze or fireball hasn't won or dominated as fleet the results in the last few years, the Musto is another one that when conditions suit can't be touched on handicap, so every dog does have its day I guess.
As it stands I think this new system is much better and with perhaps a few minor tweaks and the proposed planned additions it maybe as perfect as handicapping can possibly get. The trick is not to be scared to change numbers if it looks like they need changing, just make sure everyone knows how you plan to implement changes and that the rules used to apply them are the same for all classes. |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Mar 12 at 10:25pm |
Sorry I was misread by slop idol posting about using them from 0.3 and upwards....I realise its low, but it's still one of the highest in that table.
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