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X1 - Venture - Argo Test Sails |
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radixon
Really should get out more Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407 |
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Topic: X1 - Venture - Argo Test Sails Posted: 24 Mar 12 at 6:28pm |
Today I was fortunate to sail the RS Venture, the Topper Argo and the X1 dinghies at the Datchet Instructor training. The forecast was for not a lot of wind however we were greated with a F2-3 so a great opportunity to try the boats out.
The Topper Argo prototype was a fibreglass construction, I am led to believe the actual boat will be plastic (they did a fibreglass Xenon too) I was a little disapointed because the sails fitted were not suited to the boat (Magno Kite and a Jib that was badly cut) but it was spacious to sail two up, handled nicely and wasnt too tippy. If Topper fitted it correctly I woul dhappily give it another go to see what it is really like. RS bought the Venture along. Still a new boat but very well thought out. Comfortable, spacious and has a great boom height but enough sail to get the boat moving and a furling jib with a centre main setup keeps the boat tidy. The addition on the Gnav reallly helps with a family boat. If I was in the market for a family cruising boat, I would give this a thought when comparing it with a Wayfarer or similar. Lastly I had a go in the X1. I wasnt sure what it would be like but as I had the chance to sail it, I thought I'd give it a go. The initial thoughts were that it was very narrow and long. The main sheets off the boom, something I would have to get used to, in a blow I would prefer the extra block on the deck though. We soon launched the kite and went back to Symetric days, easy to hoist but I was rusty, however it was easy to sort out with the cleats and blocks in good locations. I felt I needed a bit more weight to flatten the boat, the tow straps didnt look like the adjusted. overall it was a great boat, if you are in the market, look around and definately enquire to see if its for you. |
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rb_stretch
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 12 at 9:04pm |
I sailed the Venture and thought it was great on the water. However the "must have" for a family boat IMHO is that it should be capable of being hauled by dad whilst mum looks after the kids. Unfortunately the Venture is way too heavy for that. At 6'6" and 90kg I'm no weakling, but I just could not get it out of Burghfield on my own. That and a number of other reasons suggests it is more of a training boat than a family/cruising boat, albeit a good one.
I suspect the Wayfarer is no better, but by the time you get to Topper Omega (hull weight 140kg) I was fine (although the Omega was too tippy for my liking). Why do family boats need to be so heavy???? Or are they just being mis-marketed?? |
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ChrisI
Posting king Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 12 at 9:08pm |
Thanks for giving the X1 a go, Richard.
Your comments noted, and I hope we can get you out again on it for a longer session, and also to try the X0 - the smaller rig. Direct to boom sheeting is different no question for anyone used to a centre block/stern mainsheet, but we honestly have found that it's a matter of tens of minutes that most people take to get used to it. For many it is no question the preferred method, including many skiff sailors. I've just got back from sailing an X1 today at Oulton Broad (....that nice Broads club that sails all the way through the winter) and was crewing young Jamie, 17, very talented sailor who normally sails an RS800 out of Gorleston (as well as a Laser, and various top crewing jobs) - he was mentioning the off-boom system to be by far his preferred arrangement. I'd urge anyone who is initially sceptical to try it for a short while and see. For exposed estuary sailing (as I think you have at Marconi compared to somewhere like Salcombe for example which is a lot more sheltered) it may well be that the X0 is the better all round boat, given your average wind speeds are higher - however I think that is simply going to depend on crew weight. Point understood about toestraps. Incidentally I had a go in the RS Venture too (thanks Rich....) - agreed... it's very well thought out and a great boat I think, and very pleased to hear that it is made in UK. Btw... there is an X1 at Oulton Broad for another few weeks and if anyone would care for a demo sail Sunday lunchtime/afternoon after racing you'd be very welcome - please just pm me. Chris
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Medway Maniac
Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 9:17am |
Off-the-boom sheeting is the way to go, and I speak as one who thought he was happy with a centre jammer for 20-odd years.
Less weight, less clutter in the boat and corresponding restriction on movement, and in my case half the capsizes! Thought I was completely on top of my jammer, but turned out it caused half my swims. You also trim the main a lot more. Of course you can omit the cleat. But fact is, the line of action of the final fall of mainsheet is more efficient off the boom - it doesn't need to pull downwards - modern boats have efficient kickers, after all.
What bugs me is that off-the-boom was out there when I started sailing - Snipes and Minisails used it. But they weren't trendy. Trendy boats used centre jammers and that's what we all wanted! |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 10:32am |
I was coaching 2 off the boom sheeted Minisails this weekend. Wasn't convinced it was better than my aft sheeted boat in confined water - on the sea when out on the seat it would be excellent.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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radixon
Really should get out more Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 12:24pm |
Off the boom sheeting though, do you have your mainsheet running down through your hands so the rope by your thumb is neares tthe boom, or the rope by your little finger is nearest the boom.
It was getting used to the different pull techniques really, as I currently sheet from a block in the bottom of the boat. |
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ChrisI
Posting king Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 12:11am |
Either is possible I think.
Keen to hear what MM does. The other point to mention is the mainsheet load which most remark is very light on the X1 with just a 2:1 (we are fitting an 8mm FSE sheet). Topical question of the day - are mainsheet loads automatically lower with square top mainsails or do they just feel lower? |
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Guests
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 12:19am |
I've been sheeting of the boom since I got my NS14 a few years back. It's great! I hold the sheet palm down (same as if from the floor) which I think makes the answer to your question "little finger".
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x1testpilot
Posting king Joined: 11 Feb 11 Location: Ealing Online Status: Offline Posts: 175 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 9:57am |
X1 was my first off boom experience and although I admit it took me a little while to get good at, it is very easy! We have had 12 year olds amazed how light the mainsheet felt even in wind. I believe this is because the mainsail foot is short, the kicker (gnav) efficient and the square top/flexible mast takes out a lot of the pressure from any gusts.
The instant, easy responsiveness and direct feel of the direct off the boom sheet definitely improves (and makes more enjoyable) your sailing and I believe prevents most potential capsizes! I am completely converted and now see mainsheet jammers, tracks, hoops etc as heavy, expensive, awkward obstructions and detrimental to sailing well. PS: I had a go in a beautiful, venerable half rater last year and it had off (wooden) boom sheeting so hardly a new idea. I think the centre main was most useful when rigid rigs (mostly aluminium masts with no stretch "cloth" sails) were the latest technology. These stiff rigs tended to be powerful but unyielding so a lot of work - e.g. I can't imagine sailing older I14s without a jammer. |
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timeintheboat
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 11:13am |
If you sail on the broads (which I don't sad to say) off the boom sheeting is nothing new!
Incidentally, off the boom sheeting with an auto ratchet and a centre bridle is good compromise.
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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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