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Women's skiff re-vote

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Poll Question: Now many of us have actually seen them which do you think is best?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [1.16%]
3 [3.49%]
31 [36.05%]
3 [3.49%]
6 [6.98%]
42 [48.84%]
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 6:59pm
Because ally is so last century. This is supposed to be a cool 21st century boat. Can you imagine a F1 car with aluminium suspension struts???
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Because ally is so last century.


And wind propulsion is significantly older ...

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Can you imagine a F1 car...

Aren't they the ones that have a wooden plank underneath, and if you wear too much off you're DSQ?
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 8:14pm
It does appear that we have become obsessed with Carbon fibre, even when its not the best material for the job.
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Because ally is so last century. This is supposed to be a cool 21st century boat. Can you imagine a F1 car with aluminium suspension struts???

No (well yes actually), but can you imagine an F1 car with a budget for a GP including the car of about 20 grand!? 

Comparing cars and boats is such a last resort tactic for making a point.  Carbon for the sake of being black really does annoy me.  I feel slightly embarrassed sailing the 100 times with its GRP pole which is carbon covered just for the sake of its colour, and the carbon foredeck which you can have in GRP too, so it cant be there for weight or structural reasons. 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 9:43pm
Even the British Moth, designed in 1932, has a carbon boom these days...
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 10:20pm
Sure, but you don't necessarily need a carbon boom. I had a tin boom on my PlusPlus because it wasn't a place where spending the extra would do much good, and it was easier to rig the tin one. I have a plastic one on the Canoe, but only because I was given half an old megabyte mast (thank you Datchet Chandlery!)

When costing a production boat I suspect its very easy to say, well we've got to have proper this that and the other, and before you know it you've put a grand on the price. A really smart development engineer can shave a few things here a few things there and save a few hundred quid *without making the boat any different to sail*.

As for forumla one and rules, just get a load of this lot...
from
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8697/fia.html

ARTICLE 15: CAR CONSTRUCTION
15.1 Permitted materials:
15.1.1 The following is the list of permitted materials. These are the only materials permitted to be used in the construction of the Formula One Car provided only that in all cases the material is available on a non-exclusive basis and under normal commercial terms to all competitors.
Permitted materials :
1) Aluminium alloys.
2) Silicon carbide particulate reinforced aluminium alloy matrix composites.
3) Steel alloys.
4) Cobalt alloys.
5) Copper alloys containing ¡Â 2.5% by weight of Beryllium.
6) Titanium alloys (but not for use in fasteners with <15mm diameter male thread).
7) Magnesium alloys.
8) Nickel based alloys containing 50% < Ni < 69%.
9) Tungsten alloy.
10) Thermoplastics : monolithic, particulate filled, short fibre reinforced.
11) Thermosets : monolithic, particulate filled, short fibre reinforced.
12) Carbon fibres manufactured from polyacrylonitrile (PAN) precursor. (*)
13) Carbon fibres manufactured from polyacrylonitrile (PAN) precursor which have :
- a tensile modulus ¡Â 550GPa ;
- a density ¡Â 1.92 g/cm ;
- unidirectional or planar reinforcement within their pre-impregnated form, not including three dimensional weaves or stitched fabrics (but three-dimensional preforms and fibre reinforcement using Z-pinning technology are permitted) ;
- no carbon nanotubes incorporated within the fibre or its matrix ;
- a permitted matrix, not including a carbon matrix.
14) Aramid fibres.
15) Poly(p-phenylene benzobisoxazole) fibres (e.g. ¡°Zylon¡±).
16) Polyethylene fibres.
17) Polypropylene fibres.
18) E and S Glass fibres.
19) Sandwich panel cores: Aluminium, Nomex, polymer foams, syntactic foams, balsa wood, carbon foam.
20) The matrix system utilised in all pre-impregnated materials must be epoxy, cyanate ester, phenolic, bismaleimide, polyurethane, polyester or polyimide based. (*)
21) The matrix system utilised in all pre-impregnated materials must be epoxy, cyanate ester or bismaleimide based.
22) Monolithic ceramics.
[Materials marked (*) are permitted only for parts classified as either front, rear or side impact structures, side intrusion panels or suspension members as regulated by Articles 15.4.3, 15.5.3, 15.4.6, 15.4.7 and 10.3 of the Technical Regulations respectively.]
Exceptions :
1) All electrical components (e.g. control boxes, wiring looms, sensors).
2) All seals & rubbers (e.g. rubber boots, o-rings, gaskets, any fluid seals, bump rubbers).
3) Fluids (e.g. water, oils).
4) Tyres.
5) Coatings and platings (e.g. DLC, nitriding, chroming).
6) Paint.
7) Adhesives.
8) Thermal insulation (e.g. felts, gold tape, heat shields).
9) All currently regulated materials (e.g. fuel bladder, headrest, extinguishant, padding, skid block).
10) Brake and clutch friction materials.
11) All parts of engines homologated according to Appendix 4



Edited by JimC - 05 Mar 12 at 10:20pm
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Menace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 10:23pm
Reckon the FX will be as quick, if not quicker than a tin rig 49er. If the 900 is almost as heavy, but shorter, the FX will win the speed contest, most likely the sailing contest. The Aura will have the innovation vote, but if it sails like a 14, which I reckon it may, the winged boats will shine through as nicer to manouvere and sail in general. As for the carbon with everything debate, chosing carbon for everything just highlights bad engineering and inefficient use of materials. You can get glass epoxy very close to carbon weight wise for much less cost. Why use carbon unless you really, really need it for stiffness? Oh yeah, to pump up the price of the boat and make it less accessible..
 
(+1 Jim, posted at the same time as you)


Edited by Menace - 05 Mar 12 at 10:26pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 10:34pm
Carbon skinning is offensive .

And yep using it when not the stuff for the job, or in applications where not engineered to make use of it's its material properties is also bullsh*t.

Thing is, a boom is a spar in bending, which should be the easiest thing in the world to do well. Cost delta on tube is app £100 I.e sub 1% of boat cost. Appaling penny pinching which will add through life cost in an application that should be fit for 200 days use a year. You can get some of that ton back if you are intelligent in how you terminate ropes etc. Another example of going the wrong side of the cost capability comprimise.

Boats that look like they've ramraided halfords are wrong.
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Sosoomii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sosoomii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 12 at 11:03pm
Says the man who designed the V Twin...
Don't shoot the messenger
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