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Women's skiff re-vote

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Poll Question: Now many of us have actually seen them which do you think is best?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [1.16%]
3 [3.49%]
31 [36.05%]
3 [3.49%]
6 [6.98%]
42 [48.84%]
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BarnsieB14768 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BarnsieB14768 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Women's skiff re-vote
    Posted: 09 Mar 12 at 1:00pm
Forgot to mention the 800 in large seas and at the wrong length to the boat's waterline length. Did it several times in Hayling Bay etc over the years, but does not detract from the boat overall. 
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BarnsieB14768 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BarnsieB14768 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 12 at 12:58pm
The 800 unfortunately has a stiff pole and the rake is not much (as is correct). The porblem is the pole with kite drives into the wave in front and you end up pitch poling. The thing is, if they pick the right boat, it should be good for 20 years and hopefully we'll see more teams sailing globally. Bring it on.

The B14 id 26 years old and with structured upgrades, the class  is still current and a great boat to sail. So any of the front runners should be able to last as long as the base and concept is correct at the start.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 12 at 8:25pm
It's not that bad to be honest RS400 @ C, especially with the carbon rig. I know quite a few mixed teams that sail them, us being one of them and a good boat to sail. If you hit big waves, it gets messy, but every boat has it's compromise. If you sail at a club where there's regularly a  big swell, buy an 800, you'll get more from it. Estuaries, harbours, lakes, all awesome for 49ers. People moan about that, but you don't go rallying in a F1 car, purely due to the car being optimised for the track. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 7:23pm
Leaving aside Beijing, is 49er sailing really that bad? That's an open question, I've never watched a proper 49er race. There are some 'crash and splash' videos on youtube, but that's true of all classes I think. I have watched yoofs in their 29ers going very well and not capsizing much in pretty challenging conditions. I think a few capsizes emphasizes the skill of the best sailors to the untrained eye, so I don't think zero capsizes is always the goal.
I take your point about inclusion of developing countries, but taking part in any high level sport is hard for them, even football which is cheap on equipment and creates excitement at home. There is money in places like Kenya, whether any of it will go to sailors is a different question. I'm pretty cynical about the olympics in general, but skiff racing will be the high point of it for me as a spectator.
The cost of the boats is trivial compared to travel, coaching, just not having a real job etc.
So long as sailing is in the olympics, we should just make the best of it. I'm sure the ability to sell TV footage acts more in favour of skiffs than 470's.
When did you last come home from the pub and search 'finn racing' on youtube? :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 7:20pm
Clap G.R.F. @ 6.55pm. Very good. Moving with the times is one thing, but does that have to mean going ever more extreme. It could just as well mean a (relatively) simple efficient design which allows Olympians to show their skills.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Doesn't anyone else find it ever so slightly significant that the Governing body of the sport is calling for a design that if unsuccessful would commercially be a no hoper?


I dunno about significant but its certainly bizarre. But its just another symptom of the "high performance is the future of sailing" myth, and of course you know what that did to board sailing.

It's not just bizarre, it could be argued as unfair elitism for the sake of medal supremacy, I mean i wonder how the Kenyan Olympic squad is going to approach twin trapezes for women in future?

The Mistral One design had barely made it to the four corners of the globe before they changed it, and now they're considering kitesurfing which hasn't even made it to the four corners of Yorkshire never mind the globe.

There's a strong argument that sailing is too elitist for the true Olympic ideals already, but suggesting here more ludicrously difficult boats (however gorgeous)is fairly pointless imv.

Surely as a showcase, Olympic sailing should be used for promoting the activity far and wide, not saying 'oh look here's something you haven't a cat's chance in hell of ever doing properly, since we can't and we have our Government and lottery funding behind us...'


Edited by G.R.F. - 07 Mar 12 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 6:23pm
17Mika, do you have many other twin wire boats in Italy? In the UK we have some International 14's, which are expensive to keep up to date, plus quite a lot of RS800's, a few Cherubs, a few 49ers. A few others too. I sail an RS800 a few times a year, it's great.
I think there wil be a market for twin wire boats, where is the logic in 'one wire is good, two wires is bad'? I mostly sail hiking boats, but if I went for a trapeze boat, why not twin wires? There are enough people around who have helmed from the wire now, on Contenders, RS600's, Mustos and RS700's, I think twin wires will slowly become accepted into more people's minds. Particularly sailing as a couple, it makes sense for the taller male to be out on the wire.
If the XX has only been marketed for less than 3 seasons, it is doing well to have sold a few boats around the globe. A lot of people are probably holding back for the results of the trials.

I understand that in Scandinavia, the RS500 is quite popular as a youth/girls 2 wire boat, if it has proved popular there, then I believe there is a market for a range of 2 wire boats worldwide. I don't think those sailors will grow older and want to progress to a hiking boat, without the choice of continuing with the twin wires.
The 49er is too big/powerful for most female sailors, which creates a need for something smaller.
It may only be good at big lakes and sea venues, but that is not a problem.
Whether there are enough 2-female teams to get good racing in one country is another question, maybe most females would do a lot of their racing in a mixed fleet. For that reason the 29erXX might win, as it would have youth teams for ladies teams to tune up against and train with.
It's always nice to hear different views from different countries.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 17mika Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Not sure about that. The 29erXX meets the brief and exists commercially. The 900 would be commercially hot stuff apart from clashing with the RS800.
The 49er variant could be viable as a training rig like the laser variants.
It's been said before that existing classes do not benefit from becoming olympic. In days of old, I understand that the 505 and Fireball both actively avoided olympic selection. The laser is probably an exception.
 
29erxx exists commercially, but has not been exactly a huge success; the rig (more or less) has been finalized in 2009 and since then most of the sales are rigs chartered in events and then sold with a discount. In our club we have 3 boats (4 if we count an old green rig)  but I guess we are the biggest fleet in the planet for a single club :D
 
49er variant could really be IMHO a training tool; the boss of our club is praying for the fx to be seletect, in order to use them for double trapeze sailing courses :D; but again, I don't know it there will be sufficient numbers just for that.
 
 
I honestly think that without the "olympic push" there woudn't be a proper market for girls skiff, and that the only boat that could survive a negative outcome of the trial is the XX, since it'a a simple and (relatively) inexpensive upgrade from the widely spread 29er.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 5:30pm
Yes, but the kid down the athletics club is throwing a Javlin already. She isn't then being told "Javlins are so ancient greek, you should be throwing this amazing thing we have invented - it is an Olympic sport now, so you have to use it". The new throwy thing would have to catch on, be used by lots of people all over the world, and then, due to it being a massive world-wide sport, be selected for the games.

Oddly, Frizbee hasn't made it, though?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 12 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Doesn't anyone else find it ever so slightly significant that the Governing body of the sport is calling for a design that if unsuccessful would commercially be a no hoper?


I dunno about significant but its certainly bizarre. But its just another symptom of the "high performance is the future of sailing" myth, and of course you know what that did to board sailing.
 
Most Olympic equipment isn't commercially viable ... how many of the British cycling bikes are sold succesfully to the world market, or RSXs or Javlins or shot puts and so on ?
 
 
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