Match Racing in Handicap fleets

Originally posted by Neal_g sportsmanship match racing is part of the sport in any field of play. i believe the phantom comes under the lipstick classes mentioned in other posts so is that sporting having a modified boat from stock handicap unfair advantage not sporting. i doubt it

Edited by maxibuddah - 01 Mar 12 at 10:05pm

Originally posted by maxibuddah true but I've been wanting to make the point of my last paragraph for ages but wanted to stay out of it, however a label of unsporting against a sailor because of the boat they sail is a step too far.

Originally posted by Neal_g Originally posted by maxibuddah true but I've been wanting to make the point of my last paragraph for ages but wanted to stay out of it, however a label of unsporting against a sailor because of the boat they sail is a step too far.   possibly but labeling a sailor unsporting as he has a good undertanding of the rules and uses them to his advantage  is exactly the same step too far.   the basic lack of rule observance is more unsporting and discourteous than actually using the rules correctly.

I would agree with your last point to an extent. if deliberate then yes, but for a lot of sailors,it is down to ignorance, which of course isn't really an excuse as they should know better. A deliberate action though is inexcusable and is cheating and unsporting. I personally class sailing a slower boat down when I know that they could never do it to also unsporting, but that is my opinion and each to their own. As you say they didn't break the rules and they did what they could to win overall and that is up to them. That is up to their conscience and I am not going to blame them while the rules allow it, its just that I wouldn't do it, that's all.

however my real point was not specifically at the sailors in the Fireball, hence the reason for not using their names, but more the actions that anyone could take in their position. I feel it is unfair and unsporting when someone can do what they did in those conditions, but the reciprocal cannot be done in the opposite conditions. If the slower boats could sail the faster boat down once the wind was up, fair enough but we all know that ain't going to happen.

And this is the crux of my point - It has to be able to happen both ways for it to be fair and in this example it cannot.

As for your original point, I've been thinking on the way to work and I think I know of anyone (though there might be someone of course) in the phantom class who has bought the boat specifically to win on a 'favourable' PY and therefore be labelled unsporting, which was your insinuation, and I do know a majority of the fleet.

probably felt that he had to from the backlash from forums such as these, left him in an almost untenable position. As he said in the statement, he had checked that the rules allowed this and therefore only sailed within the rules.

It seems to me that it could be construed as a conflict between the British sense of fair play against winning at all costs. They did nothing wrong but are perceived as being wrong because that is not what us Brits should do...blah, blah, blah. Note that the British sense of fair play didn't seem to exist when we were taking in the locals with a Winchester rifle and all they had were sharpened pieces of mango....

Now before you have a go at me for being hypocritical, I hope that I managed to get across that I am not blaming them per se but rather the rules that allow them to do so as being unfair, and if I haven't, I meant to so sorry if that is the case.

As for changing the rules, I have about as much chance of doing that as becoming the next Phantom national champ. None. the whole system is tied up on politics that I doubt even our national body has very much influence on the actual rules.

Q&A -2010-38 clearly states that "match racing" in handicap fleets does not break rule2.

It is a pity no-one protested. Then our sport's dispute resolution process could have been used.

Gordon