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Mass handicap, average laps, split classes. |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
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robinft
Far too distracted from work Joined: 18 Jun 04 Location: Thorpe Bay YC Online Status: Offline Posts: 252 |
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Topic: Mass handicap, average laps, split classes. Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:14am |
Scenario: mass handicap with classes ranging from Feva to A class cat and laps to count from 2 to 4. Half a dozen boats cross the line just before the shorten course flag and the wind dies making their final lap much slower and increasing their average lap time.
We've all suffered that and it can happen in reverse so no major complaint so far. But what about the leader in one class who in the final results is 'beaten' by same class boat(s) who were behind, but whose average lap times over one lap fewer are better? Is there a generally accepted remedy or do we simply accept it as another downside to average laps? |
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timeintheboat
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:23am |
I suspect this falls into the realms of "tough". We've probably all been there where on a Wednesday evening race being sent around again as the wind falls away.
Must be even more frustrating on the tidal stuff at Thorpe Bay.
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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Neptune
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1313 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:32am |
I think that class orders should always override average lap times.
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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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robinft
Far too distracted from work Joined: 18 Jun 04 Location: Thorpe Bay YC Online Status: Offline Posts: 252 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:36am |
I don't disagree, but is there any precedent, who uses it and how is it worded? |
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Neptune
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1313 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:46am |
Its how the results at Burghfield are worked out - all the times are put into sailwave, along with the number of laps and a little bit of black magic sorts the results out.
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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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smurfer
Newbie Joined: 23 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 33 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:48am |
We use this at Scaling Dam. The wording in the SIs goes:
Where possible the shorten course signal shall be made as the leading boat approaches the penultimate buoy. However, the RO may at his discretion make the signal for a boat other than the leading boat in order to maintain control of the race (eg to avoid sending slower boats round the course ina dying wind). When this discretion is exercised the RO will endeavour not to split fleets (ie finish some of the boats of the same class on different laps). Should a fleet become split and the results show obvious anomalies, redress may be applied to restore the natural order within that fleet without disadvantaging other competitors. HTH Andy
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robinft
Far too distracted from work Joined: 18 Jun 04 Location: Thorpe Bay YC Online Status: Offline Posts: 252 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:51am |
What do the sailing instructions say? |
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chrisg
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 11:11am |
We do average lap racing at draycote on a wednesday night, and for our "fleet" results, if a fleet does get split, those doing more laps automatically beat those that sailed fewer. Can't remember the exact SI wording though.
Handicap fleet results are all worked out on corrected times with number of laps taken into account though so if there are more than one of a single type of boat in the handicap fleet and they get split over the finish its kinda tough i guess. As others have said it can go both ways so everyone understands. A lot is said about average laps being the fairest form of racing if you have a big PY split across a fleet as theoretically everyone sails a similar amount of time over the same course in the same wind, but it can often lead to anomolies due to dying winds etc. |
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redders
Groupie Joined: 30 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 41 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 11:38am |
This happened to us on at Sunday Grafham. As the leading 400 we were sent around for 4 laps and the shorten course signal sounded about 2 mins later for the next 400 who then only completed 3 laps. Although it did pick up but also shifted our last lap time was very close to the previous 3 so no issue!
However at last years SN again we were sent round to do another lap on our own but this time the wind dropped and we ended up last 400, not happy! Same scenario in one of the races at the DD last year but no issue with the result! The answer can only be that race crews must record times of every lap and be vigilant with regard to what boats are where on the course. Splitting fleets should not happen, and if it does wind the time back and try and get to the boat and let them know. It is a no win situation for race crews though because there is the risk of the race being too short or too long either way unhappy sailors For me it is another reason why handicap racing is only for fun.
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The older I get the faster I was!
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robinft
Far too distracted from work Joined: 18 Jun 04 Location: Thorpe Bay YC Online Status: Offline Posts: 252 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 12:00pm |
I now understand that the RYA does have established guidance (last revised 2009). Details
at: http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web%20Documents/2007%20Portsmouth%20Yardstick%20Scheme/2007%205%20Average%20Lap%20Racing.pdf
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Laser number 9
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