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Blatant pumping in Olympic sailing - OK with that? |
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rogue
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
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Topic: Blatant pumping in Olympic sailing - OK with that? Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 10:25pm |
great vid Paul- 'part of the Olympic ideals, to be higher, faster, stronger...' sounds about right to me given the nature of what's being competed for at Olympic level, even if it's something we might temper on the clubs and open amateur circuits. |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 11:01pm |
My main point is that rule 42 effectively defines what is sailing.Go beyond the limits of rule 42 and you are no longer participating in the sport of sailing.
Personally I believe that the modification that modifies rule 42 in certain wind conditions is not the best way forward for the sport. It is also dangerous to make an exception for Olympic classes as they represent a standard to which young sailors will aspire. Should the rules of soccer be different at the Olympics? Gordon |
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Gordon
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 11:42pm |
The trouble is that rule 42 is not always understood/applied the same at different levels. I have been accused of illegal actions as part of a course alteration which have been perfectly OK at juried and umpired events. One can of course modify sailing style - but it's not quite as easy as that!
One thing that is not well understood is that it is one pump per wave to "initiate" planing or surfing. If these 2 are already occurring then even a single pump is illegal. The observation of unrestricted pumping does blur this line. Gordon - I do recall being spoken to once that I had been close to crossing this line during an event. My own view was that although I was already planing I was also able to gain a further increase by initiating a surf which was assisted by a pump, and that therefore there was nothing out of order. The Umpire (note Team-racing) had had enough doubt on it not to penalise me. What would the latest guidance say?
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rogue
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 9:38am |
Fair point- but sailing has adapted over the years and the rules need to reflect this. Rightly or wrongly, boat performance is higher up the agenda- certainly at Olympic level- the justification for a women's skiff simply isn't there if you look at the demographics on the water globally. Okay it's chicken and egg, but my point is change happens, the rules need to adapt and the nature of the game will be defined as a result. Pumping makes the sport more physical and no question the correct technique will make the boat faster too. I really can't see the harm in any athlete aspiring to Olympic level knowing that these two facets will become more and more important. Paul Henderson's comments on air rowing which can be seen here on Sailing Anarchy are frankly out of date and spoken like a true dinosaur... on this basis, we should ban asymmetrics, or indeed any boat that 'noticeably' uses apparent wind, rather than true wind. he'd probably ban 'tidal lee bow' if he could Citing windsurf racing's demise as a direct result of not 'banning' pumping is also a little simplistic. There are a myriad of reasons windsurf racing declined, pumping might have had a small influence, but marketing, long-term appeal and the rise of a planing-only culture contributed far more- Graeme's better qualified to give you guys a more detailed picture, my only experience of trying to race boards is this... f**k it, racing's better in dinghies that actually go upwind- full stop Edited by rogue - 21 Dec 11 at 9:43am |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 10:05am |
In reply to Sargesail:
1. Deciding whether a roll is commeasurate with a change of course is one of the most difficult tasks when judging rule 42. If a boat is heeled, changes course then is brought upright then this is legal AS LONG AS the heel bears some relation (in its timing and its amplitude) to the change of course. Any action that has the effect of a stroke of a paddle is almost certainly illegal. 2. We spent a long time debating this at an event this year. We concluded that the rules seemed to allow a boat that was already planing to pump to initiate surfing, but that pump broke rule 42, because it would be a repeated pump in regard to planing! The Jury included 5 IJs, including Judges with experience of Olympics, Americas Cup .... Gordon |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 10:13am |
Just read the Sailing Anarchy article. I agree with it totally, although I would nuance the comments on the demise of board sailing fleet racing.
Boardsails are not necessarily the best support for fleet racing - and I always thought board sailing was all about getting away from restrictions, organisation etc.... In many ways boardsailing is more an offshoot of surfing. Gordon |
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bert
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Apr 05 Location: norwich usually Online Status: Offline Posts: 584 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 11:45am |
Personally I`m with gordon & Paul Henderson completely & have no opinion on board sailing.
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timeintheboat
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 12:45pm |
+1 |
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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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fab100
Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 1:16pm |
What no one seems to have mentioned is that the majority of club racers in particular are well into the masters age categories. Ignore Cadets and 4.7s and at our club we can as often as not have no one under 40 racing, with many being retired.
Allowing air-rowing would fatally disadvantage those more senior sailors. In no time they would be gone and sailing clubs would be dead (remember that age group are often the ones who have the time and inclination to also actually RUN sailing clubs, whether in admin or organising youth sailing) So its quite simple - allow free pumping and completely kill dinghy sailing outside the 5-ring circus. I've a better idea; sailing would be better off in the UK if it was NOT in the Olympics. That way the RYA Zone squads would not, ruthlessly, burn-out 99.99% of its kids, losing most to the sport of sailing forever, just in the hope of finding another medalist and cementing the RYA jobs that elite money brings in. Given the choice, I'd forego the medals and have a thriving sport full of 18-35 year olds. That was how it used to be - only now that generation (mine) are the 50year olds. Or is it that the younger generation think that they only way they can overcome our knowledge and experience is to over-empasize brawn at the expense of brains?
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chrisarnell1
Groupie Joined: 06 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Dec 11 at 2:59pm |
Couldn't disagree more A lot of kids get into the sport because of RYA funding for grass-roots sailing (Onboard, VCC, Team 15 etc). I don't know where you get 99.99% of kids "burning out" through the RYA squads but I think you're over-estimating the problem. Fact is, Olympic success drives the funding that supports us all. Losing sailing from the Olympics will have a huge impact on the support we receive at local clubs. For what it's worth I'm not a fan of unlimited pumping - it feels like a game change and not one of the better ones - especially at club level. |
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