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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1674 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 7:24am

Originally posted by laser193713


Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by seamonkey

I think it was easier from in the boat actually as you just dropped the tiller for a moment and sort of threw yourself over the boom; one hand on the boom bouncing it down the other pulling the kicker on ...


Makes you wonder why they bothered with the XD kit at all, really, when it was so simple before...


Does it really make you wonder? The Harken XD kit, less so the holt stuff, is in a completely different league to the old kit! It has allowed lighter sailors to progress into the laser due to the ability to depower so easily which makes them more money in boat sails.  Plus it allows them to sell some decent kit at massively inflated prices.  Its a no brainer isnt it?
I do however think half the reason why the sails last such a short amount of time these days is because the loads going through them now are so much higher than they used to be.  Could it be that by updating a small part of the boat (the control lines) they have made another (the sail) look even more outdated than it seemed before?


you what ? laser sails were always naff and only lasted about 6 months if you sailed hard and the xd kit wasn't invented back then, and then of course the sail went from 3.2 to 3.8 ounce material which made little difference to the longevity at all
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Dougal View Drop Down
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Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 8:53am
Originally posted by maxibuddah


you what ? laser sails were always naff and only lasted about 6 months if you sailed hard and the xd kit wasn't invented back then, and then of course the sail went from 3.2 to 3.8 ounce material which made little difference to the longevity at all
 
And changing the first number (or two) on the sail to red didn't make them last any longer either.
 
 
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 9:43am

There's actually a rule that sail numbers should be no more than four digits (Appendix G, rule G1.1 (c) ). however, that doesn't apply to Lasers, as they're a pre-1997 ISAF International class.

 
As a digression, what does ISAF expect an International or Recognised class to do if it reaches number 9999, especially if early boats are still sailing? Presumably thge rule doesn't really affect the laser 2000, as it isn't an International class and the leading 2 isn't really part of the number.
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 882 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 11:05am
Originally posted by maxibuddah


Originally posted by laser193713


Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by seamonkey

I think it was easier from in the boat actually as you just dropped the tiller for a moment and sort of threw yourself over the boom; one hand on the boom bouncing it down the other pulling the kicker on ...


Makes you wonder why they bothered with the XD kit at all, really, when it was so simple before...


Does it really make you wonder? The Harken XD kit, less so the holt stuff, is in a completely different league to the old kit! It has allowed lighter sailors to progress into the laser due to the ability to depower so easily which makes them more money in boat sails.  Plus it allows them to sell some decent kit at massively inflated prices.  Its a no brainer isnt it?
I do however think half the reason why the sails last such a short amount of time these days is because the loads going through them now are so much higher than they used to be.  Could it be that by updating a small part of the boat (the control lines) they have made another (the sail) look even more outdated than it seemed before?


you what ? laser sails were always naff and only lasted about 6 months if you sailed hard and the xd kit wasn't invented back then, and then of course the sail went from 3.2 to 3.8 ounce material which made little difference to the longevity at all

Try getting 6 months out of a laser sail these days... I used to just have 1 sail that was my event sail and nothing else, open meetings didnt justify that sail even.  Using that sail only in qualifiers, nationals etc it would just about last a year.  For club racing and training i had a sail which was really quite dead and then in the middle i had a sail that was suitable for opens.  These 3 sails got relegated every time I bought a new one which was at least once a year.  

Perhaps it all depends on what you define as a sails racing life...
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 10:31pm

Originally posted by laser193713

Originally posted by maxibuddah


Originally posted by laser193713


Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by seamonkey

I think it was easier from in the boat actually as you just dropped the tiller for a moment and sort of threw yourself over the boom; one hand on the boom bouncing it down the other pulling the kicker on ...


Makes you wonder why they bothered with the XD kit at all, really, when it was so simple before...


Does it really make you wonder? The Harken XD kit, less so the holt stuff, is in a completely different league to the old kit! It has allowed lighter sailors to progress into the laser due to the ability to depower so easily which makes them more money in boat sails.  Plus it allows them to sell some decent kit at massively inflated prices.  Its a no brainer isnt it?
I do however think half the reason why the sails last such a short amount of time these days is because the loads going through them now are so much higher than they used to be.  Could it be that by updating a small part of the boat (the control lines) they have made another (the sail) look even more outdated than it seemed before?


you what ? laser sails were always naff and only lasted about 6 months if you sailed hard and the xd kit wasn't invented back then, and then of course the sail went from 3.2 to 3.8 ounce material which made little difference to the longevity at all

Try getting 6 months out of a laser sail these days... I used to just have 1 sail that was my event sail and nothing else, open meetings didnt justify that sail even.  Using that sail only in qualifiers, nationals etc it would just about last a year.  For club racing and training i had a sail which was really quite dead and then in the middle i had a sail that was suitable for opens.  These 3 sails got relegated every time I bought a new one which was at least once a year.  

Perhaps it all depends on what you define as a sails racing life...

Yup, I'm getting through 2 event sails a season.  That's qualifiers, two europa cups, worlds, and maybe 2-3 opens.

Some people get away with only one sail, but they're quicker than me so don't need the boost  Tongue

We're using windsurfer levels of cunningham on dacron sails and after 3 events the leech is a mess.  That I can abide though, because we're pushing the limits of what the sail was designed to do for the sake of performance.  If you want to save your sail, you can use less and just pinch a bit.  If you've got awesome downwind speed you can still do ok!  The masts are a different story however, and will come back bent after a couple of hours practising your roll tacks in 8-10 knots.  It's a real sore point with the sailors at the moment imo.
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 882 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 11 at 10:51pm
I never had such a problem with bent masts to be honest, I made very sure that as soon as i was finished in any races or if i was just sat alongside a rib during training that my kicker was fully off.  I still believe this is why i never had a problem with bent masts.  Obviously a few went but the cost of a new top section is nothing compared to over a grand for a new carbon stick for a development boat or even the 100! Also a broken mast in a laser when insured with noble normally leads to a very quick and easy replacement of both sail and mast.  

The quality of the masts is getting worse though i think, I also used to drill out and replace the standard rivet where the masts tend to break. Doing this i could insulate the mast from the rivet which definitely stopped the corrosion.  I couldnt find anything in the rules at the time to stop this and never got any trouble for it at any of the big events i went to.  However, i did once get asked to remove a retaining line that i put round the rear mainsheet block on the boom because i had some dangerously loose rivets, it wasnt doing anything to pull the block closer to the boom or anything.  I argued that if it were to fail i may have required safety assistance but the measurer decided that because if it failed i would be able to continue racing which would have given me an advantage it was illegal.  If it comes to the point where you aren't allowed to improve the reliability and even safety of the boat without improving its performance it just starts to get a bit silly!  

Things like this in the laser class eventually drove me to leave the class and i havent looked back since!
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I luv Wight View Drop Down
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Posts: 628 		Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 11 at 9:04am
Not just a new topmast...

http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk
Andy P
foiling Int Moth GBR3467
Freedom 21 Codling
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 11 at 9:36am
isn't that the Hansen Aerospace sail- feck all to do with Global Sailing or LPE?
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Stargazey View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 May 10
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Posts: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stargazey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 11 at 9:19pm
Fully battoned mylar sail, carbon rig, old Ian Bruce designed hull to keep costs down for those with the old style rig ... that'll be the Byte CII then?
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 11 at 8:20am
That guy has got far too much board out the water... it's going to end in tears!

Rig looks a bit out of place too.
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