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29 races in 12 days in all 9 classes at the RS Gam |
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James Tanner
Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Topic: 29 races in 12 days in all 9 classes at the RS Gam Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 6:48pm |
right to reply....The RS500 is not a kids boat, it has an ideal sailing weight of
approximately 120 to 140kgs, a very similar sailing weight to the RS200,
but a lot more exciting down wind.
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James Tanner
RS500 525 Better a bad day on the water than a good day in the office. |
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themeaningoflife
Far too distracted from work Joined: 06 May 11 Location: Essex/ Kent Online Status: Offline Posts: 212 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 7:02pm |
Any further explanation?
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Pierre
Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1532 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 8:30pm |
I hear voices.....or at least someone does.
WTF did this come from?
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Neptune
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1313 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 9:23pm |
The story from the RD games in the mag. James obviously feels offended.
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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 9:39pm |
To be fair, when it was first launched the 500 was marketed as a 'transition' boat bridging the gap from youth to adult - a sort of student demographic I suppose. The releases at the time made much of that being the point where many people drop out of sailing, and the 500 was going to be the boat that stopped that happening. I've no idea what the actual demographic is, but it was certainly pushed at a youthful market.
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Mister Nick
Far too distracted from work Joined: 01 Aug 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 389 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 9:46pm |
The guy who wrote the article is completely right, it was originally designed to be sailed by people moving up from the RS Feva. I would have been heavy enough to sail the RS500 with a mate of a similar weight to me (60kg) over a year ago when I was 14. If all of that that doesn't make it a youth boat then I'm not sure what does?
The Laser isn't a good comparism, the optimum weight is 75-85kg which is far heavier than most kids I know. I'm nearly 16 and I'm only about 68kg, I wouldn't be able to sail a Laser as competitively as a 500 for a fair while. If you take two guys of optimum Laser sailing weight, you could throw them in a 49er and they'd have the weight to compete and do well. It's really not designed as a youth boat. Edited by Mister Nick - 04 Nov 11 at 9:49pm |
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Contender443
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 10:34am |
Well I think RS are mising a trick here as the youth market is not the only market for this boat.
We have 2 RS500s at our club and both of these went ot Weymouth for the Worlds this year. The helms and crews won't mind me saying that they cannot be considered to be under 40 any more.
Why did they choose the 500? Quite simply they wanted something similar in concept to the Laser 2 that they could sail together as husband and wife. Edited by Contender443 - 06 Nov 11 at 9:01am |
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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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mike10626
Groupie Joined: 04 Jul 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 72 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 1:49pm |
If you haven’t worked it out yet, there is an article with
this title in the November issue of the magazine. James is a little clearer about what he is
talking about, on the RS 500 Facebook group. It sounds like I need to compare notes with the author about
how to sail the RS 500. I know I am near
the top end of the weight range in the fleet and tend to find it easier to keep
up with the fleet going upwind – especially when it is windy. What I struggle with is keeping up going
downwind when the light weights can power up at a lower angle and get to the
leeward mark by travelling less distance.
Shame I missed the Worlds this year because I have a feeling people are
beginning to learn how to adjust their sailing style dependent on weight. Claiming you can sail the RS 500 with less than 120 Kg (19
stone) in the boat is not very useful.
You can also sail a 505 with that all up weight. In neither are you likely to win a 5 day
world championships, though, as on some of the days you are going to find it
difficult to keep up with teams with more weight. In my opinion the optimum weight range for
the 500 is still undecided. Looking at
the Worlds and Nationals over the last couple of years it looks as though it may
settle at a similar level as the Laser II of 20 to 24 stone (127-152 kg). Hopefully the range is as broad as possible
otherwise someone will come up with yet more new designs to fill even more non-existent
gaps in the market. Pigeon holing boats that cater for this weight range as “Youth
Boats” is probably one of the worst aspects of the current dinghy scene. Surely there must be a massive overlap in
weights between a couple of teenage boys and a mixed team of averagely fit
adults. Why does everyone seem to want
to put off this second group off by telling them they are sailing a “Youth Boat”? With the Laser II the main group of people at
events were always adult sailors despite the fact it became the IYRU “Youth
Boat” for a few years. Is the current shortage
of second hand 29er’s something to do with the way it has never had an adult
following in this country and not had enough teams with there own money to spend? For many people who have bought the RS 500 the obvious
position for it is as the adult equivalent of the 29er. Being part of the RS Circuit had the potential
of a ready-made social aspect to the events. In general this has what has happened with the
fleet. The number of Youth Sailors may
have been relatively high in the first few years but the average profile at
events is now getting older. Now the
class has lost its newness most youth teams seem to go straight to the 29er if
they are planning to sail beyond club level. Personally I think RS may have wasted some marketing effort
by trying to persuade Feva sailors that the next boat to step up to is the RS
500 (surely this was a marketing ploy not part of the original design spec). Was this ever going to be the case
with so many other boats already catering for this market? If it’s sold some boats though what’s the
problem? The sooner there is a decent
second hand market for RS 500’s the sooner it will be able to start attracting
people away from some of the older classes in this crowded area of the market. |
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RS500'S@Datchet - The Country's largest Trapeze Asymmetric Fleet ?
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tamsin
Newbie Joined: 11 Feb 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 14 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 8:11pm |
well said Mike! it would be interesting to see the crew statistics from the worlds this year. I would say an educated guess would be that boats being sailed by couples/friends over 18 would be about 70% of the fleet. all youth boats 10% and family(eg father and son) 20%. I just hope such a silly article dosn't put any people off the fleet.
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James Tanner
Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 11 at 9:58pm |
Some interesting responses, perhaps I should clarify my position:
I was some what miffed when I read the article in the magazine and had a bit of a rant, the version of the rant you see here had to go through so heavy editing (by me) to make it publishable. My interpretation of the whole article was that Jubby has a very low opinion on the RS500 and the people sailing it. I took exception to this as I have been sailing the boat since it was launched and I have many friends in the class and the international contingent make it all the more fun, with special mention tot he international class rep, Michiel Geerling, who organised some fantastic RS500 socials at the RS games. It is true that when first launched the boat was targeted at the youth market as at the time the Fevers had 100+ boats turning out at every event and RS wanted to sell lots of boats. It didn't work, very few Fever sailors went on to buy RS500s and those that did didn't stick to it. unsurprising really as most of them had dreams of Olympic glory and wend into 420s or 29ers (the established route to 470s or 49ers). This move gave the RS500 a shakey start, as we sailed several events with the Fevers as oposed to sailing with more exciting classes which would better compliment the sailors such as the RS800s. So on to the weight issue. I am lead to believe Jubby weighs in at around 105kg this puts him in the top end of weight bracket for most of the of the classes he sailed that week. depending how big heavy crew was. none the less he sailed all the calsses and to his credit he did very well in most of them. But to then turn around and slate the RS500 because he couldn't get it going up wind was unreasonable. You can't sit there and pigeon-hole the RS500 into the "kids" bracket just because it requires two sailors around the 70Kg mark. This boat has a very wide demographic at the moment with sailors ages ranging from two 15 year olds to two 50+ year olds with the majority sitting in the 20 to 40 year old age bracket. Why the wide appeal? One answer is you get a lot of boat for your money, for about £6k for a brand new boat you get a proper fibreglass boat which is light, points well and will plane upwind and down wind (exactly when you get on the plane depends on your weight, for my wife and I it is 12 knots of breeze on flat water and we sail at an all up weight of 140kgs). Another answer would be the great social scene (and this applies to the whole RS family, but especially the RS500) I am sure even teh most hardened Euro sceptic would agree the Dutch know how to party! as does Hongkong, the Germans, the French, the Swedish need I go on? In my limetted sailing experience I have sailed the closest competition, the Laser Vago and the 29er. I found the Laser vago heavy, under powered and didn't point well. I found the 29er expensive, a bit twitchy and not very forgiving, but very fast and great fun. I brought an RS500 because it was great fun but forgiving when you run out of talent, it powers up progressively and it has a very clean uncluttered feal so it doesn't take all the skin off your legs (unlike the 29er which ripped me to shreds when I sailed it in shorts). so in summary: If you want to enjoy you sailing, like a bit of excitement down wind and don't weigh in at 100+kg (although if you did you would still be welcome to join us, even you Jubby as long as you stop moaning about your weight) then buy an RS500. if you don't like any of the above then that is fine too, but lets have no more condescending articles in the press about things you clearly don't understand. |
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James Tanner
RS500 525 Better a bad day on the water than a good day in the office. |
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