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Debunking Dodgy Sailing Theories
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Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 11 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Contender443

I think we are talking more about balance here. What you think of as flat is usually a slight heel to leeward and windward heel to you is probably flat.
 
If your rudder is set up properly then a flat boat will give neutral helm and therefore no drag.
 
I thought the question was with regards to the theory that heeling a boat to windward on the beat would make it point higher! at least for the same speed anyway.
 
I seem to recall some thinking the hull shape in the water made a difference when heeled to windward, and others believed the rig performed better when heeled to windward, hence canting rigs to windward in Melins (recently) and Flying Dutchman (many years ago)
 
There is of course always the theory that what you think is flat isnt, and you should always feel that the rig is pointing to windward, but thats different.
 
 
 
 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8614 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 11 at 5:38pm
One of the Rooster vids goes into it in some detail. Easier to see it happening than to explain, at least for me...
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Posts: 212 		Post Options Post Options   Quote themeaningoflife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 11 at 6:30pm
Plus if a gust hits when the boat is heeled to windward, as it comes flat it is in the best position to accelerate from and thus more speed and height!
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Posts: 550 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 11 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Roger

hence canting rigs to windward in Melins (recently)


Kevin Haynes was doing that in the 70s, which is recent on a geological scale of course Wink
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 11 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by craiggo

Depending on sail cut, the outhaul has differing effects. On most sails it can only be used to control the draught of the lower 1/3 of the sail. The amount of travel needed on a skiff outhaul is small as generally the rig is pretty powerful and controlling the top and middle sections with cunningham and kicker is more critical.
In general though for light wind sailing it is essential to keep the flow attached to the sail, and too much draught can lead to the flow running out of energy leading to seperation. A tight outhaul while sailing a little free-er will ensure minimum drag but max forward drive.

exactly keeping flow attached , it also depends, as you say on the rig  - with the extremes of the laser / topper style shroudless una rig  at one end  and the all singing all dancing 27 pieces of string  of a merlin or somesuch at the other  as to what influence the outhaul and  the cunningham has - basically by what opposes it's actions 
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 11 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

<snip>
Also, what some people call 'light' others are thinking, 'let's postpone until the wind arrives'. I'm thinking about those days when we struggle to make progress at all against the tide.


(some) pond sailors will sail if there's one wind ripple per square metre of water's surface or less, where in tidal waters you 'd just be being pushed around by the tide 
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 11 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Contender443

I think we are talking more about balance here. What you think of as flat is usually a slight heel to leeward and windward heel to you is probably flat.
 
If your rudder is set up properly then a flat boat will give neutral helm and therefore no drag.

 exactly ...
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 11 at 11:01am
Originally posted by zippyRN

 

(some) pond sailors will sail if there's one wind ripple per square metre of water's surface 

That's blowing a hoolie on our lake! 

The other week the race was run (by popular request) when the only ripples were caused by fish jumping and ducks swimming!  (and it was foggy).

I was glad I was on race duty that day.

I dont recall how many boats had their clew outhaul on hard though.
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Posts: 2771 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 11 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by zippyRN


Originally posted by Contender443

I think we are talking more about balance here. What you think of as flat is usually a slight heel to leeward and windward heel to you is probably flat.
 

If your rudder is set up properly then a flat boat will give neutral helm and therefore no drag.

 exactly ...

The rudder will always have drag, just like the centreboard. A light helm does not mean no drag, it just means it is better balanced.

Edited by Peaky - 28 Dec 11 at 10:51pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 2956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 11 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Peaky


The rudder will always have drag, just like the centreboard. A light helm does not mean no drag, it just means it is better balanced.


A rudder that is continuously providing lift to counteract weather helm will create more drag than one which is not.
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