New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Debunking Dodgy Sailing Theories
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Debunking Dodgy Sailing Theories

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>
Author
SoggyBadger View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Oct 10
Location: The Wild Wood
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 550
Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 11 at 8:31am
Originally posted by I luv Wight

Originally posted by I luv Wight

What is planing? 

This is definitely planing, ( ie exceeding the hull speed of a foot = 1.43 knots according to some theories)
http://youtu.be/IlruXNU9i6k


There has to be a more dignified way to have colonic irrigation than that.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

Back to Top
fudheid View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 11
Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 11 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by JohnW

Originally posted by fudheid

Don't you just do the apex turn so you come out next to the mark??

If you come out next to the mark it is not an Apex turn.  I was going to draw a diagram, but this article explains it better than I could:




The article goes on to state that it is when you are tacking after the mark because you keep more speed through the tack putting you ahead and the other yacht on your windward hip. if the two boats round doing an 'apex turn' surely the one who is closest or 'tightest' to the mark has the advantage?
Cheers you

only me from over the sea......
Back to Top
Peaky View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 15 Nov 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2771
Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 11 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight


Originally posted by Peaky

No no no no no. Planing has nothing to do with exceeding a particular speed.
I can't see the video at the moment, hope it's a good one!
Err... see the title of the thread!

doh! Fair enough...
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom/Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4027
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 11 at 5:28pm
Planing? Isn't that when you overtake your own bow wave and surf down the front?
Back to Top
gbrspratt View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 26 Sep 11
Location: Felixstowe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 169
Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 11 at 9:49am
Originally posted by fudheid


Originally posted by JohnW


Originally posted by fudheid

Don't you just do the apex turn so you come out next to the mark??

If you come out next to the mark it is not an Apex turn.  I was going to draw a diagram, but this article explains it better than I could:
The article goes on to state that it is when you are tacking after the mark because you keep more speed through the tack putting you ahead and the other yacht on your windward hip. if the two boats round doing an 'apex turn' surely the one who is closest or 'tightest' to the mark has the advantage?



Totally agree!
Back to Top
JohnW View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 552
Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 11 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by gbrspratt

Originally posted by fudheid


Originally posted by JohnW


Originally posted by fudheid

Don't you just do the apex turn so you come out next to the mark??

If you come out next to the mark it is not an Apex turn.  I was going to draw a diagram, but this article explains it better than I could:
The article goes on to state that it is when you are tacking after the mark because you keep more speed through the tack putting you ahead and the other yacht on your windward hip. if the two boats round doing an 'apex turn' surely the one who is closest or 'tightest' to the mark has the advantage?



Totally agree!

I think you you are both missing the point I am making.

I agree with you that "wide in tight out"  has tactical advantages when other boats are about, however in the absence of nearby boats the fastest way round the course is doing apex turns.  So if you are in a handicap race and rounding the mark away from other boats,  apex turns will get you a better elapsed time.

It the two boats you mention are both doing an apex turn (optimal rate of turn for the boat, with the mark at the apex) then the will both exit the same distance from the mark.

You cant do a real apex turn and come out tight to the mark - if you are tight to the mark on exit your apex was downwind of the mark so you sailed further. Despite what you have been told, you will be behind where you would have been if you were not so close to the mark on exit.




Back to Top
Dougal View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 09
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 556
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 11:18am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Planing? Isn't that when you overtake your own bow wave and surf down the front?
 
 
Or to put it more simply....
 
 
 
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6342
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 11:51am
Interesting piece that one. Good find. There's a lot of mileage in considering what motorboat designers have to offer in that particular design area: its something they have to think about a lot with other design factors being simpler. .I like the point about speed and wake size: its so obvious you need to include the time factor and yet it hadn't occurred to me...
Back to Top
Menace View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Oct 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 296
Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

What is planing? and how do you define it?
 
It's a woodwork techniquie where strips of wood are effectively shaved off by a plane. Next question please.
Back to Top
themeaningoflife View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 11
Location: Essex/ Kent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote themeaningoflife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by JohnW


I think you you are both missing the point I am making.

I agree with you that "wide in tight out"  has tactical advantages when other boats are about, however in the absence of nearby boats the fastest way round the course is doing apex turns.  So if you are in a handicap race and rounding the mark away from other boats,  apex turns will get you a better elapsed time.

It the two boats you mention are both doing an apex turn (optimal rate of turn for the boat, with the mark at the apex) then the will both exit the same distance from the mark.

You cant do a real apex turn and come out tight to the mark - if you are tight to the mark on exit your apex was downwind of the mark so you sailed further. Despite what you have been told, you will be behind where you would have been if you were not so close to the mark on exit.



This is true for a car and most other racing forms, but with sailing, because there is such a large disparity in speed between upwind and downwind, the quickest way around the course is to spend as little time as possible going upwind, thus tight in, wide out at a windward mark and wide in, tight out at a leeward mark.
What is true however is that at a gybe mark or similar, where there is little speed change, the quickest route is and apex turn.  Smile
Cambridge University Lightweight Rowing Club
RS800 1128

kindly sponsored by RWO Marine
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy