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Rule 28.1 protest |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
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Topic: Rule 28.1 protest Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 6:05pm |
Nothing to do outside time limit unforunatley, the results must stand.
Agree with the post about intending to protest and notifying the RO this at least gives you more time to talk it through get evidence etc.... After notifying the Ro and Protest comittee we get 1 week to organise ourselves before the hearing- generally in this time it gets sorted with whoever retiring. Very occasionally it gets to the PC |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 6:58pm |
Don't whinge if you're not going to protest, but do give diplomatic feedback to the organisers to help get things right next time. And all rounding marks should be to port unless there is an overpowering reason for a starboard rounding! (please!) |
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Stuart O
Really should get out more Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Oct 11 at 2:43pm |
Totally agree with the sentiments of protesting immediately....there is another thread in the dinghy section about protesting (or lack of them).
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chrisarnell1
Groupie Joined: 06 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Oct 11 at 11:45am |
Postscript to the above.
We photographed the blackboard that had the course displayed. It's a bit smudged but you can see how the "port / starboard" roundings were written. Not sure if they were added at the time or after the confusion began. We do have a protest to hear - very likely to be ruled invalid at the hearing owing to the lack of a protest flag. But I have to say I have some sympathy with any skipper who claims he couldn't see the course clearly... |
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RS300 393
OK GBR 21 |
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chrisarnell1
Groupie Joined: 06 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Oct 11 at 7:15pm |
All the marks were rounding marks.
Boat A rounded all the marks - nothing was missed - so any time gained as a result would be minimal. The courses are usually pre-set so the RO normally says "course A" or something and all the sailors do is refer to the sheet that has course A. In this case he set the course while at anchor in the bay - so it wasn't published before the fleet got afloat. Pretty sure that the course was shown before the warning signal. (I wasn't there) VHF is used as a means of communication with the fleet - this is in the SI's - but the course must be shown on the committee boat too. It seems that he may have written the port or starboard roundings on the board (at the time or later) but they weren't very legible. I don't know whether the other boats got their course information from the blackboard or over the VHF radio. Because the hearing hasn't taken place we might not get all the facts. Suffice to say that any protest submitted now is almost certainly going to be thrown out without much of a hearing because none of the yachts informed Boat A they were going to protest or flew a red flag. In fairness to Boat A I can't see how we can proceed with a hearing under these circumstances. This discussion topic has been really interesting and useful. One thing I learn from incidents such as this is that its better to protest and deal with a grievance immediately than let it simmer afterwards. If you're not going to bother with a protest - don't bother writing to the class captain and don't bother sulking afterwards. I suspect this race will be the subject of bar talk and strained relations for some time to come! |
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RS300 393
OK GBR 21 |
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Oct 11 at 10:26pm |
Were all the marks rounding marks?
SI's should be clear on this. If so the distance sailed should be the same. If not, i.e some are passing marks, it's a farce and there really should have been a protest. Most yacht races started from committee boats rely on courses created shortly before the start, to get a beat, so posting on notice board ashore is not going to wash. Also yachts often do not start from the home club, being based in various marinas etc. Agrieved parties should protest or shut up. If they had reason to believe the yacht would retire, then it did not, that may be sufficient reason to extend the time limit, as per last sentence in R61.3. Some clubs use the notation that all marks are to port unless indicated otherwise, so it's easy to see why this happened. Quite a bit of yacht race management is like this i'm afraid. |
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r2d2
Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Oct 11 at 7:41pm |
1b. make a check to ensure that with the specified sequence of port and starboard mark roundings, the course actually makes sense and is not ambiguous
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Oct 11 at 5:32pm |
From a procedural pint of view - if protest time limit is passed, and there is no good reason to extend the limit then the incident is closed.
Question 1 - Do the SIs allow for verbal changes to the course over the VHF? If they don't then what was written on blackboard is the course. Question2 - At what time, relative to the start signals, did the RO give details of course over the VHF? Question 3 Why did other boats not protest? Writing to the Class Captain is somewhat ungentlemanly, especially when authors of the letter couldn't be bothered to protest. Basically, the letter writers are accusing the crew of A of being cheats. I can hear the sound of lawyers rubbing their hands in glee! Question 4 If RO thought there was a problem why did he not protest? In order to avoid this problem next time - 1. write course out ON PAPER, post one copy on notice board, file a copy for future record and, if possible, make copies available to competitors. Problem with blackboards is that they get rubbed out and there is no permanent record of course set. 2 If SIs allow course changes by VHF (not necessarily a good idea) then make sure that a recording is made of any message, time of message is logged and try and get some confirmation that message has been received. Gordon |
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Gordon
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ASok
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Sep 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 739 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Oct 11 at 2:13pm |
The gains could be huge. Extreme example could be racing from Plymouth to Falmouth and using the lighthouse as a mark. Big difference going inside or outside it!
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Oct 11 at 8:46pm |
It is kind of basic, really, stating which way to go round marks. If boat A was told by the RO which way to go and then did so, I can't really see how it is to blame, even if other boats were told different, unless it states in the sailing instructions that the course shall be taken from the VHF broadcast.
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