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LEE BOW EFFECT

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gbrspratt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 3:35pm
Admittedly it doesnt take much but im confused  Confused Are people saying your boat will physically point higher with the tide on the lee bow or that your COG will be higher with the effect of ferry gliding through the tide???
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 3:34pm
Which is exactly why half the fleet will still tack onto the down tide side then wonder wtf happened upon tacking over to see the rest of the fleet are already around the mark and gone..

Or they'll wait to be late out of a gate start and wonder why they sailed straight into a world of dirty wind pain.

You can't help some folk, they never can get their head round it.

The wind anchors the boat bozos.. Give it up now.

You're beginning to look retarded..




Edited by G.R.F. - 20 Oct 11 at 3:40pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Do this..

Get a little model row boat (preferably with a curved hull if you can't find anything with a foil)

Get your flow going evenly. 

Tie one end secure = boat lines up with current, nothing proved

Secure boat at 45 degrees to current watch what happens.


I fear when I read a post like that you don't understand why in your diagram 3 the additional of the current over diagram 2 has allowed you to sail closer to the true wind ... I suspect you think some additional flow over the foils (i.e. the perception of being referenced to the land) is what is making that happen rather than understanding that the sailing wind is backed from the true wind as a result of the current induced wind. It must be hard to get your head around this having been confused for so long but think about it ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 1:03pm
I think GRF is just breaking the different components down to illustrate a point. The motion of the boat due to the wind is what provides the interaction with the tidal force.

And I think everyone does agree that the tide has an impact performance depending on where it is coming from....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by seamonkey

Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.


Ah ... but do pondmonkies notice strange happenings when someone pulls the plug out of the dam?

only that the baby goes out with the bathwater 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.


Ah ... but do pondmonkies notice strange happenings when someone pulls the plug out of the dam?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

This is the problem with your theory, it relies on the boat being secured to a stationary point. If that is done yes the foil will generate lift from the tidal flow over it, but the boat is not held stationary, the boat is free and will move around as the water moves around. There will be no flow over the foils apart from the flow that is derived from the normal movement of the boat, and the boat will not be aware of the effects of the tidal flow.


I think we are getting to the bottom of GRPs confusion ... his perpetual motion theories all seem to rely on his reference point being the ground (as if anchored) rather than moving on the current as per the moving carpet or table cloth models ...


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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.


Originally posted by Rupert

Sea Monkey, what has happened? Your last few posts have dispelled my vision of you as an angry, trolling 13 year old, and show you as a well read sailor who can't possibly be GRF's inner demon fighting to get out! and are a turnturtle gone rogue.


<div id="myWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">
FTFY


not me chap... this guy clearly knows more than you or I...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

This is the problem with your theory, it relies on the boat being secured to a stationary point. If that is done yes the foil will generate lift from the tidal flow over it, but the boat is not held stationary, the boat is free and will move around as the water moves around. There will be no flow over the foils apart from the flow that is derived from the normal movement of the boat, and the boat will not be aware of the effects of the tidal flow.


Exactly.

Or think of it this way - Imagine you are sitting in your V-twin on a totaly calm day, anchored in the middle of a channel with a 2 knot drift. Move the rudder to one side and let me know what happens.
Now cast off your anchor and drift with the current. Move the rudder again.

In one of these scenarios there is flow over your foils due to the current.
In the other scenario you are not anchored.

For what its worth the likes of Stan Honey, Lowell North and Peter Isler are all sitting on Dave Perrys side of the fence.
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