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Does anyone bother protesting these days ? |
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ASok
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Sep 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 739 |
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Topic: Does anyone bother protesting these days ? Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 9:26am |
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Because they have to? Surely you are all racing under the same rules regardless of ability, size of water, type of boat etc?!?!?
I think you need to actively encourage protests and remove any stigma seeing one through. I was part of a race committee a few years ago for a laser event at Datchet and the amount of shunts on the start line that you could hear was ridiculous. Absoluetly no-one logged a protest then - it seemed fair game to have a jossel for postion on the line without cause to complain.
I'm not saying this relaxed apporach is limited to lasers, its just the example I've used!
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alstorer
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 9:28am | |
At the very least, mediation needs to be encouraged.
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Al |
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Ruscoe
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 9:31am | |
I think the discuss it over a pint resolution is part of the problem. By getting a softly spoken dressing down over a beer, the culprit has got away with it. I have only seen one protest at my club in the years i have been sailing there (at the annual regatta about 20 years ago) I am not sure if the club would know how to handle one correctly, i am damn sure i wouldn't know where to start. It strikes me that most people are to scared to protest as they get labelled (incorrectly may i add) as a pain in the ass. I may shout protest n the water to encourage someone to do some turns, but would be highly unlikely to follow through with it. I get wound up far to easily as it is, my temper is short and i sail to relax and enjoy myself.
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lionel rigby
Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 9:38am | |
At our small Club, Porthpean, we had 18 boats out racing yesterday and at least 3 boats caused infringments but there were no protests; why? Because each time the guilty party knew they were in the wrong and did their turns. Hence we had good racing and all retuned to shore as friends, with no recriminations afterwards. However it must be galling to go to an open meeting, sail fairly and possibly get beaten by others who have infringed the rules and not taken a penalty. The only answer to that one is to protest. If enough people protest then the message will eventually get through, but good sportsmanship should prevent all the unpleasantment that goes with protests.
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Golden Oldie
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 10:08am | |
I am aware of an incident where the PRO said 'why are you givng me that, i don't deal with protests' leaving the protestor looking bewildered. I walked over and explained to the PRO they they have to accept the form and acknowledge it then speak to the Duty officer who will usually take things from there (at my local club anyway).
The other problem with a protest is that it is seen as confrontational and people (generally) don't like conflict. Until that perception is changed then this situation will always arise. I generally try to have a quiet word but for a persistent offender who is clearly making no effort to either improve their behaviour or learn the rules then a protest hearing is normally the only way. If they then carry on it (and it is you local club racing) it may need to go to the committee to speak to the person concerned.
Plus there is the though that 'it is only club racing, does it really matter' (which I am as guilty of as everyone else). At Open meeting and regattas then I would expect much better rule observance. Thing like the RS rule for class events that you can hit a mark are a nonsense though and create confusion and should be removed (if they have not already).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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rogue
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 11:06am | |
RRS is primarily there to offer safe passage to racing craft, it's ultimately based on COLREGS- Fundamental Rule 1: Safety combined with Fundamental Rule 2: Fair Sailing and Fundamental Rule 3: Acceptance of the Rules, should be enough to ensure the sport remains fair- especially at amateur club/open level!
The problem is, hand on heart, how many of us are absolutely sure we're in the right 100% of the time after an incident? Very few I suspect- and it's not surprising as the rules are so convoluted and complex about what would in other non-contact sports, be commonsensical in their application. I just love one person's interpretation of Time and Opportunity verses another's... wouldn't 'if you're windward, you're wrong' be simpler? It would then prevent more collisions, as faster boats would need to sail well outside of the viable luffing zone. So we have a rule book that it the basis for the conflict of opinion, which leads to a situation on the ground where protesting is frowned up for all but the top tier of the fleet. WHo's the bigger cock- the guy who causes a minor infraction and gets a posthumous DSQ once the protest has been heard, or the w**ker who held the entire proceedings up and made the prizegiving so late that most people had buggered off, just so he could come 14th rather than 15th? I think there's a massive requirement to simply the 153 page rule book, but then the establishment won't have yachting dumbed down to a peasant sport now would it? |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 11:36am | |
This was a weakness we run into at my club: because we don't have many we aren't good at dealing with them. We had one last year that took 3 months to resolve! Another goody was one for which involved competitors in our major handicap series, which meant that every experienced sailor in the club was potentially an interested party so forming a PC was a bit tricky. My conclusions, which weren't adopted by the club, were that we ought to have a list of potential PC members ready so that the OOD knows who to grab: it takes a suprising amount of time to round up a PC, and secondly that there should be a designated time for hearings in the Sis, because on at least one occasion by the time I'd rounded up a PC and worked out a time to start at least one of the parties had got bored and gone home... |
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Neptune
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1313 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 11:50am | |
There's only 14 rules in Part 2 of the rules that you need to get your head around though - yes some are a little more detailed than others, but the rules are all published on 6 pages. The rest of the sailing rules book shouldn't be needed when your racing at most levels.
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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 12:12pm | |
Well put!
How many others here do other sports comptetively?
I for 1 play hockey, there is a rulebook associated with Hockey and I took time to read it as well as speak to more experienced players. I am not saying I am an expert but I have enough idea to know what I definitely cannot do in most common situations.
OK Hockey has 2 on the pitch Umpires to enforce the rules and this encourages people to learn them. However just because we are self policing should not mean that we can ignore the rulebook completely.
To grasp the basics (port/starboard, windward/leeward and an idea of mark room) does not take much effort but it seems a lot of people are unwilling to put in that effort or they ignore it!
One way to help with this is to have a rules quiz either at your club or on your clubs website.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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maxibuddah
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 12:40pm | |
always going to be a problem when the majority of protestable situations are one word against another and no witnesses in sight. In that situation who is going to bother? Also occurs when the only person who could witness is a mate of the protestee...they might not be too helpful either. The whole rules thing is dependant on decency and honesty and a sense of fair play as it is self-policing and it will always be difficult if people don't want to play by these rules. The only way to resolve is to have imputed, but imagine the cost associated with that. Maybe each club should have a nominated judge or two that act as umpires each open at least.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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