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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pulling the Trigger Y&Y article
    Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 6:03pm
The shall not otherwise move their boies to propel to boat refers to Ooching. You are allowed to hike and move your body to trim the boat to the waves which obviously makes the boat faster than if you did not perform these actions.
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by gordon

Jon,
As I am sure you know (it is clearly indicated in the rule book) rule 42 has official interpretations, which are, like the call book, authoritative. The notion of a paddle stroke appears in Interpretation BASIC 4
1. Getting up to speed whilst altering course is permitted (see ROCK 6).
2; Accelerating faster than "getting up to speed" indicates that the roll was not commeasurate with the change of course
3. One roll is permitted if it does NOT have the effect of a paddle stroke - ROCK 2


From my observations most of the coached sailors know all this and their rock to pull the trigger is part of a manoeuvre that takes them from a close reach to close hauled. Only the most outrageous behaviour gets pinged.

Gordon

Agreed.
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 6:08pm
"The "shall not otherwise move their bodies to propel to boat" refers to Ooching.

NOT TRUE - these words are in 42.1 the Basic Rule and apply to all kinetics.

Please note BASIC 1 An action that is not listed in rule 42.2 may be prohibited under rule 42.1

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 6:14pm
I guess you have to consider there is a very thin line between using your body to stop the boat slowing down from its maximum speed and moving your body to propel to boat. Wink

When you look at most jury calls for body movement they are put under 42.2c.

I think you might find it very interesting to watch a grade one Laser regatta from behind the start line!

Edited by Jon Emmett - 25 Aug 11 at 6:14pm
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 6:46pm
Extract from the ISAF Guidance notes on rule 42 for Lasers:

STARTS
1. One Roll and One Body Pump
A roll or a body pump at the start should not propel the boat. Very often one roll is combined
with strong body pump at the completion of the roll what may break the paddle test.
Permitted actions:
• One roll or one body pump that does not have an effect of one stroke of a paddle.
Prohibited actions:
• One roll or one body pump propelling the boat with the effect of one stroke of a paddle -
BASIC 4
• Repeated rolling the boat - 42.2(b)(1)
Gathering evidence:
• Is the competitor causing the boat to roll?
• Does a single roll or body pump have an effect of one stroke of a paddle?
• Is the rolling repeated (more than once)?

The rule 42 penalties for the Olympic test event are available on the web

Gordon

As for getting to a Grade 1 Laser event - I'ml working on that.
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 7:25pm
Hi Gordon, I must admit I am really not sure what we are still discussing since it has been agreed that it is permitted to roll the boat off the start line...

If there was suddenly masses of boats disqualifed at major events for rolling the boat off the start line I am sure everyone would have heard about it Wink.

It is far more fun watching the events in real life (you get a much better feel) then reading penalites of the web. I'm not saying I see every penalty (the coaches are not allowed that close to the racing) but we see how the fleet behaves.

I would really hope that when everyone is sat at home watching the Olympics next year they don't think all the Olympians are cheating because they are rolling the boats off the start line. I guess I see my roll in the articles to help club sailors sail like the full time sailors do...

If you are going to be at Perth, please feel free to come and say hello! I am very pleased my piece for Y&Y has sparked some debate.


Edited by Jon Emmett - 25 Aug 11 at 7:53pm
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 11 at 8:29pm
I have agreed that a roll and a righting of the boat in the course of luffing up on the start line is permitted, and from what I have seen that is what most competitors do. The guys who get pinged forget about the change of course, or overcook the righting of the boat.

Judges would only ping a boat when they are absolutely sure that the rule has ben infringed - so there are not that many penalties.



I won't be in Perth - but, having just been at the Topper Worlds will be at the TR Worlds then the Star Europeans...

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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 11 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Hi Gordon, I must admit I am really not sure what we are still discussing since it has been agreed that it is permitted to roll the boat off the start line...

If there was suddenly masses of boats disqualifed at major events for rolling the boat off the start line I am sure everyone would have heard about it Wink.


Jon, 
Yes this is agreed, however my concern on reading your article in Y&Y (and hence my original post) was that it was not made clear that the the roll on the start has to be part of a change of course for it to be legal. 

Similarly there was an perhaps an ambiguity in the way the article was phrased (which is repeated in your post above) where you say that you can pump once because repeated pumping is not allowed. As Roger has pointed out this in not the case (other than when changing course).

Its a good article, so thank you, but it would have benefited from more clarification to explain that the change of course is what makes the roll legal.
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