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Unidentified boats on a black flag start?

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 5:10pm
And isn't that why most boats are now all light grey or white? Because it is easy to follow the orange boat over the line then match the hull colour to sail number 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 7:26pm
Chas,
 
best way to deal with fleets like this is to be VERY FIRM and make it clear at the pre-regatta briefing that the Black Flag will be used; and those that are over will be binned; if it takes an hour to bin enough to get a good start then so be it.
 
been in fleets in the past were 1/3rd of the fleet got binned before we got away.  After that start we all behaved.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 11:48pm
I was at an Enterprise Inlands, about 20ish years ago (I will not name the club!), where we had 15 general recalls under black flag conditions, and yet people, were only starting to get DSQ'ed after start 10!!! As honest laŵ abiding sailors, we were getting pretty p***ed off with this, and worst of all we were listed as over, when we third rank on the line, and one of our club mates were called over when they did not even launch, due to technical problems!!!

Thankfully, the club in question, has improved it's act in recent years. As I found out at a Squib inlands about 10 years ago....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 6:30pm
I can see the point in postponing the race at the last minute (or less) if tidal conditions are difficult - especially if they have changed a lot since the previous race, so the fleet might not expect to be swept over. That or a big shift, but overly keen sailors, no. Black flag, General Recall and bin those you can see. Nothing worse than hanging around waiting for a restart just because some of the fleet are playing silly buggers.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:08pm
The thing I can not abide is ROs that do not recognise how the start they have created is contributing to the black flag.
 
So often Generals are caused by a lack of awareness of tide, and the fact that it is having a sifnificant effect on teh apparent wind.  Thus the 5 degrees of bias on the stationary committee boat is about 20 degrees to the boat on the water.
 
Or just setting too much bias.  I have heard that on ROs courses it is taught that the default is port bias (5 to 10 degrees) in order to help pull boats away from  the committee boat.  Now all too often actually the bias is set at 10 to 20 degrees.  Result - very difficult starts.  Or the other factors make folk favour going left and therefore square or starboard bias is bneeded to spread the fleet.
 
For me the default should be a square line, or not more than 10 degrees port.  Set any more in either direction will result in recalls.
 
And don't start me on OCS for boats that start in the line sag and "must have been over".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:12pm
Role on the day that we are all racing with tracking devices...This discussion probably wouldn't be happening.
It would also provide good evidence in any 'when boats meet' transgressions as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 9:00pm
I think you may find that the advice to RO's is no bias!! Although, most RO's do not follow modern guidance, and still put about 5 degrees port bias on....

I would contend that the amount of bias should reflect conditions up the course (wind bends, tides etc...), and this depends on the RO knowing the local conditions. If the RO is not aware of local conditions, maybe he shouldn't be RO!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 7:25am
Not according to the three folk I've spoken to just after their courses!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 8:12am
As for me, I want to know where you guys are sailing that you find the wind is so consistent... I figure that a line you get three starts from will need to be set at least 20 minutes, which in just about every place I sail is enough for two or three shifts at least. I reckon if the line doesn't stray outside the range 0 - 10 degrees I've done a pretty good job, but on a lot of days, especially inland, the wind won't be that steady.

Edited by JimC - 07 Jun 11 at 8:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 6:26pm
JimC in a way that reinforces my point.  If you set it at 10 degrees port and the wind then goes left 10 degrees you have a big problem line.
Doubly annoying when it starts at 15 degrees and works left from there.
 
But I also don't do much multi-class starting these days so more chance of a lack of shift.
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