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Unidentified boats on a black flag start?

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:12pm
We have certainly had races at Contender Europeans or Worlds with multiple black flag starts. I could never understand why no boats were kicked out when you can identify some. Surely if you started kicking out the boats you could identify then this would act as a deterent.
 
At the moment people keep pushing the line and the black flag has no effect at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Roger

Originally posted by Fraggle

I'm guessing your talking lasers (as thats the standard advice we work to, one try then straight to black flag)
 
 
I thought it was the Dart 18s
 
 
I'd be surprised if this was the Dart's although the nationals was just at Sheppy.  I was away and didn't make it, so still waiting to hear how it all went.  Generally the Darts are all well behaved and black flags don't normally get rolled out that often, however it was windy over the weekend and it was a decent sized fleet (75ish I believe).
 
I'd suggest for any class the RO should take the advice of the class association and stick to it for consistency.  If this all happened on the first day of an event, the RO could discuss with committee or senior members of the fleet to guage opinion.  That way there can be no argument on the outcome.  I'm not saying that the RO should pass responsibility off, but its good to be consistent and follow the class norm.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:20pm
Oh and at the Contender Europeans the RO put up the postponement falg with 45 seconds to go as he could see the fleet were already over the line. Surely that is 45 seconds to get loads of numbers down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Surely if you started kicking out the boats you could identify then this would act as a deterent.
 
At the moment people keep pushing the line and the black flag has no effect at all.


That's the way to do it. Chuck out those that you can see. Less boats to start and should make those that got away with it think twice about pushing the line.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:36pm
If you're not going to BFD those who are seen to cross the line, why put the flag up?
Would it not be better to use Z?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:42pm
I say note all the ones that were definitely over and bin them, let the ones you didnt see do the restart, keep doing this until you get a start where you can identify all boats over the line.

Whenever I have a black flag start and a recall I think they should bin at least 2 boats (1 visible from each end), if they dont bin any then it smacks of a rubbish race officer.


Edited by GybeFunny - 31 May 11 at 1:47pm
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Roger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by ASok

Originally posted by Roger

Originally posted by Fraggle

I'm guessing your talking lasers (as thats the standard advice we work to, one try then straight to black flag)
 
 
I thought it was the Dart 18s
 
 
I'd be surprised if this was the Dart's although the nationals was just at Sheppy.  I was away and didn't make it, so still waiting to hear how it all went.  Generally the Darts are all well behaved and black flags don't normally get rolled out that often, however it was windy over the weekend and it was a decent sized fleet (75ish I believe).
 
I'd suggest for any class the RO should take the advice of the class association and stick to it for consistency.  If this all happened on the first day of an event, the RO could discuss with committee or senior members of the fleet to guage opinion.  That way there can be no argument on the outcome.  I'm not saying that the RO should pass responsibility off, but its good to be consistent and follow the class norm.
 
I might be wrong but I assumed Dart 18s as I believe the original poster is also the photographer, and additionally makes comments regarding the number of recalls.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mister Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 2:43pm
Work out who is being well behaved and and kick out the others by a process of elimination. If you get the same idiots over the line on every start then just get rid of them. I think my dad did some SB3 racing once when so many boats ended up over the line, after the 3rd attempt to start the race the Race Officer just said 'Right, you obviously can't behave so you can all go home. Racing's cancelled for the day.' I think thats a tad extreme though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 2:44pm

".....If a boat breaks this rule and is identified, she shall be disqualified

without a hearing, even if the race is restarted or resailed, but not

if it is postponed or abandoned before the starting signal."

So it is not optional, the race committee must disqualify any boats it identifies breaking a black flag rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

".....If a boat breaks this rule and is identified, she shall be disqualified without a hearing,

End of discussion then: Moral: always check the rules!
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