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Unidentified boats on a black flag start? |
Post Reply | Page <1 2345> |
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Contender443
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211 |
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Topic: Unidentified boats on a black flag start? Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 5:10pm |
And isn't that why most boats are now all light grey or white? Because it is easy to follow the orange boat over the line then match the hull colour to sail number
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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 7:26pm |
Chas,
best way to deal with fleets like this is to be VERY FIRM and make it clear at the pre-regatta briefing that the Black Flag will be used; and those that are over will be binned; if it takes an hour to bin enough to get a good start then so be it. been in fleets in the past were 1/3rd of the fleet got binned before we got away. After that start we all behaved.....
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 11:48pm |
I was at an Enterprise Inlands, about 20ish years ago (I will not name the club!), where we had 15 general recalls under black flag conditions, and yet people, were only starting to get DSQ'ed after start 10!!! As honest laŵ abiding sailors, we were getting pretty p***ed off with this, and worst of all we were listed as over, when we third rank on the line, and one of our club mates were called over when they did not even launch, due to technical problems!!!
Thankfully, the club in question, has improved it's act in recent years. As I found out at a Squib inlands about 10 years ago.... Jon |
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Blaze 711
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 6:30pm |
I can see the point in postponing the race at the last minute (or less) if tidal conditions are difficult - especially if they have changed a lot since the previous race, so the fleet might not expect to be swept over. That or a big shift, but overly keen sailors, no. Black flag, General Recall and bin those you can see. Nothing worse than hanging around waiting for a restart just because some of the fleet are playing silly buggers.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:08pm |
The thing I can not abide is ROs that do not recognise how the start they have created is contributing to the black flag.
So often Generals are caused by a lack of awareness of tide, and the fact that it is having a sifnificant effect on teh apparent wind. Thus the 5 degrees of bias on the stationary committee boat is about 20 degrees to the boat on the water. Or just setting too much bias. I have heard that on ROs courses it is taught that the default is port bias (5 to 10 degrees) in order to help pull boats away from the committee boat. Now all too often actually the bias is set at 10 to 20 degrees. Result - very difficult starts. Or the other factors make folk favour going left and therefore square or starboard bias is bneeded to spread the fleet. For me the default should be a square line, or not more than 10 degrees port. Set any more in either direction will result in recalls. And don't start me on OCS for boats that start in the line sag and "must have been over".
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Andymac
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 8:12pm |
Role on the day that we are all racing with tracking devices...This discussion probably wouldn't be happening.
It would also provide good evidence in any 'when boats meet' transgressions as well.
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Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 11 at 9:00pm |
I think you may find that the advice to RO's is no bias!! Although, most RO's do not follow modern guidance, and still put about 5 degrees port bias on....
I would contend that the amount of bias should reflect conditions up the course (wind bends, tides etc...), and this depends on the RO knowing the local conditions. If the RO is not aware of local conditions, maybe he shouldn't be RO!! Jon |
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Blaze 711
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 7:25am |
Not according to the three folk I've spoken to just after their courses!
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 8:12am |
As for me, I want to know where you guys are sailing that you find the wind is so consistent... I figure that a line you get three starts from will need to be set at least 20 minutes, which in just about every place I sail is enough for two or three shifts at least. I reckon if the line doesn't stray outside the range 0 - 10 degrees I've done a pretty good job, but on a lot of days, especially inland, the wind won't be that steady.
Edited by JimC - 07 Jun 11 at 8:13am |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 11 at 6:26pm |
JimC in a way that reinforces my point. If you set it at 10 degrees port and the wind then goes left 10 degrees you have a big problem line.
Doubly annoying when it starts at 15 degrees and works left from there. But I also don't do much multi-class starting these days so more chance of a lack of shift.
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