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Oppostie Gybes, leeward Mark |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Topic: Oppostie Gybes, leeward Mark Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 10:22pm |
Being doing too much umpiring perhaps - it is on a starboard hand rounding that the port tack boat would be inside.
The principle remains the same the inside boat or the boat clear ahead IF she is not also right of way boat (when boat astern is on starboard, and boat ahead is on port) can only sail straight to the mark from where she enters the zone (however slow or uncomfortable that course may be). That does not mean that a port tack boat is allowed to continue to sail a "hot" angle then gybe onto a hot angle on starboard then gyge back - sailing a sort of Z course from where she enters the zone. If sailing to the mark means sailing dead downwind... TOUGH! As for rule 18.4 - which only applies if boat is inside, overlapped and right of way (that is leeward boat or on starboard) - imagine a starboard boat coming in to a port hand mark at the same time as a port tack boat - she would be inside overlapped and right of way, so entitled to sail a "hot" angle until her proper couse is to gybe, and port boat would have to keep clear. When starboards proper course is to gybe she must do so. If after gybing she is clear ahead she can still do a tactical rounding (enter wide, leave tight), however, if she is now overlapped to windward she is only entitled to sail to the mark not a boatlength or so wide of the mark. Gordon |
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Gordon
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damp_freddie
Far too distracted from work Joined: 20 Oct 05 Location: Aruba Online Status: Offline Posts: 339 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 10:12am |
Tactically a port boat on a port rounding could break overlap on a starboard boat on her port quarter by soaking near the zone. If she was left (bouy to her stb) of the mark then she would be entitled to gybe, or if she hardened up at the zone she could gybe.
But that is a very useful clarification Gordon thanks: reminding us that it is "to the mark": see definition "mark room" in the rules. " ....sail to the mark and then sail her proper course" Suggestion for next version of the rules would be to have the relevant definitions for a rule printed in the pre-amble to each or as a footnote. |
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 1:03pm |
Hence why most good assy sailors will know which way they are round and approach the mark on the appropriate 'tack' to ensure they get an inside overlap. At the Fireball nationals at Paignton many years ago all the boats were playing the angles downwind because it was so light. We decided to go left and everyone else went right. We took half the fleet and called for water (as it was) and got the reply 'since when?'. I replied 'in theory since we gybed on to starboard about a mile or so away'. Had a chat with the guy after (once he got over his grumpy stage) and he thought it was a genius move (we were helped by the tide and a puff or 2 of wind). |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 1:25pm |
Damp freddie said : "Tactically a port boat on a port rounding could break overlap on a
starboard boat on her port quarter by soaking near the zone. If she was
left (bouy to her stb) of the mark then she would be entitled to gybe,
or if she hardened up at the zone she could gybe."
If port tack boat breaks overlap and is clear ahead when she enters the zone, unfortunately she is not also right of way boat - starboard boat is. Port is only entitled to mark room, which means she must sail straight to the mark - if she hardened up just before entering zone she would have to bear away and sail to the mark. If she luffs above the course to the mark as she enters zone she is taking more mark room than that she is entitled to. Sailing to the mark means sailing in a straight line from the point you enter the zone to a point just beside the mark where you start to change course to round mark, leaving an seamanlike distance between boat and mark. This may well not be a fast angle of sailing! Gordon |
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Gordon
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damp_freddie
Far too distracted from work Joined: 20 Oct 05 Location: Aruba Online Status: Offline Posts: 339 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 9:05am |
it could reasonably include a gybe in the situation discussed though.
Yes jeffers, it seems a bit of flock mentality going left! Once in an RS400 club race I had spinnaker issues and while they were sorted ran DDW. Quite quickly, and the VMG was amazing. I then got the knickers up and took the whole fleet on starboard at the (two boat) zone. Pepsi and Phoenix used to sail well longer than the rest of us "sheep" in the sigma 33 procession, all for that starboard /zone moment of glory |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 10:58am |
Yes, a gybe could be necessary, but if boat entitled to mark room is not right of way boat then she is not entitled to sail "hot angles" but only to sail directly to the mark (even if this is dead downwind).
If she does anything else she must keep clear. That is a fine distinction which many sailors have difficulty appreciating. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Garry
Really should get out more Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 1:09pm |
Surely by the time you reach 3 boat lengths its less
garry Thinking triangles and sausages here. Edited by Garry |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 9:22pm |
Most cats do not go deep to drop; when sailing with a crew; as soon as the halyard is tripped, I'm heading up and getting some heat on. |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 10 at 10:01am |
I do believe the Mark Room does include room to gybe (if required). This is where things might get a little hazy as how much room do you need to gybe, esp. id you have a drop to do as well.... Personally I find it easier to try and stay out of trouble and minimise any loss from getting stuck on the outside. The other way is of course to try and sail tactically and cut back inside or not let them get the overlap in the first place. Difficuly I grant you when you might be dead running with a assymetric sailing the angles. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 10 at 7:17pm |
If sailing your proper course at the mark includes a gybe, then the boat entitled to mark room is to be given enough room to do so promptly in a seamanlike manner... which is not much for an Oppy sailing on a small pond and quite a lot for a 60 footer at an offshore mark in a strong breeze!
Gordon |
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Gordon
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