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Class Rules in Club Races. |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Topic: Class Rules in Club Races. Posted: 18 May 10 at 12:00pm |
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"Do any clubs have a formal method of checking the boats before allowing
them to race or is all down to helm honesty?"
I've been sailing for 25 years, belonged to half a dozen different clubs and I've never come across measurement or scrutineering at club level events. At club level the order of the day should be to get people racing, not to make it harder or more expensive for them to race. The single most important thing a club can do is to get more people racing. At open & championship level, compliance to class rules is a must. "The guy who buys two replica sails a year is going to be at a considerable advantage over the one who buys one real sail a year." They are both "real sails" and it is not the custom or practice in handicapping to penalise those who purchase new sails. If there is good reason to believe a new replica sail is faster than a new class-compliant sail, by all means reflect it in the handicap. However I don't think anyone believes that is actually the case. "Buttercup, a J/24, raced in the handicapped class. Did the J/24 Class Rules or the handicap system rules apply to her?" This is a very common situation in yacht racing e.g. an OD racing in an IRC handicap class and these days it is normal for such a boat to have its own individual IRC rating rather than sharing an OD class rating. Only in the latter case would class-rules compliance be required. Thus you will commonly see a number of OD boats within a class having slightly different handicaps e.g. reflecting different age allowances, measured sail sizes or hull weights. Edited by Stefan Lloyd |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 May 10 at 12:42pm | |
That depends... Not at the moment in dinghies, but in earlier days when folk were less affluent it was by no means unusual for classes to have restrictions on the number of sails that could be purchased, nor is it that unusual in keelboat classes... I've come across mention in the old days of local one design classes where at an agreed interval the class ordered up a batch of identical sails from a sailmaker and every boat had a new set, allocated randomly. You weren't allowed any other new sails until the next batch. Quite impractical with mass market and nationally distributed classes and all the rest of it, but surely as good a way of keeping expenditure on sails down as has ever been devised... |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 May 10 at 12:50pm | |
It might be worth trying to bulk order Laser sales - if you order quite a few they may give a discount.
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 May 10 at 1:46pm | |
I was talking about adjustment of handicaps. There are keelboat classes that restrict sail purchases for class racing. To the best of my knowledge there are no handicap classes that do so. IRC, which is of course the dominant measurement rule in the UK, restricts the number of sails that can be carried but has nothing to say about the frequency with which they are purchased. |
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Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 May 10 at 2:55pm | |
Agree, it seems a tricky issue. How do clubs implement the rules without alienating people. Most rule bending breaking is probably a result of ignorance or economy but some experienced sailors knowingly do it for performance gain........I suppose it's a judgment call when dealing with it. |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 May 10 at 7:33am | |
J24 getting individually measured and non-class IRC certificates? Surely you jest? |
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Rockhopper
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Nov 07 Location: Eastry Online Status: Offline Posts: 642 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 May 10 at 8:17am | |
The rs racing rules which we use at events says that we can hit marks and not do turns but in club , handicap racing you cannot hit the marks after doing a few events you get used to it .
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Retired now after 35 seasons in a row and time for a rest.
2004 national champ Laser5000 2007,2010,National Champ Rs Vareo |
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alstorer
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 May 10 at 8:29am | |
The "hitting marks" rule is a standard Sailing Instruction, not a Class Rule, as far as I understand it. I don't think it is something that can actually be modified by Class Rules, but can by SIs. |
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Al |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 10 at 6:21am | |
Not sure if you are jesting or not but I'll give a serious answer. Once upon a time it was common for OD classes to race class-compliant with a single IRC rating e.g. the Sigma/33 and Sigma/38 fleets. That is now rare. The reason is that a boat can almost invariably get a more favourable rating but measuring individually. There are several reasons for that including: 1. they get more age allowance that way 2. it is normal for boats to weigh more than the designers figure on which the OD rating is based The now-defunct Prima 38 class in the UK led the way regarding an OD fleet using individual certificates, the briefly successful and near-OD X332 class followed and the markedly differing IRC ratings gained by allegedly OD J/120s has been a subject of controversy in the USA. As for what J24s do in IRC, haven't a clue. It's nearly 20 years since I battered myself on those and that was in the now-defunct Solent OD fleet. Edited by Stefan Lloyd |
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gordon
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 10 at 1:20pm | |
There is one J4 in Ireland, skippered by Flor O'Driscoll that is always at the front of the fleet - winning last years Dun Laoghaire Regatta in Class 3 on both IRC and ECHO. Boat was declared boat of the regatta. Did the same thing at Irish Cruiser Champs the year before.
Gordon |
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Gordon
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