Death roll recovery

   Hi all.

Just to start the boat in question is the Byte CII

Now on the rooster DVD in oreder to survive the death roll you bear away further and move weight into the boat.
Makes sence.

Now on the www.byteclass.org website the how to video reckons you pull the sheet sharply and head up?

Now on the rooster DVD pushing the rudder to head up will accelerate the roll?

Whats the solution?

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zailor Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 10 May 09 Location: Penparc Online Status: Offline Posts: 249	Post Options Post Reply Quote zailor Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Death roll recovery Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 8:26pm
	Hi all. Just to start the boat in question is the Byte CII Now on the rooster DVD in oreder to survive the death roll you bear away further and move weight into the boat. Makes sence. Now on the www.byteclass.org website the how to video reckons you pull the sheet sharply and head up? Now on the rooster DVD pushing the rudder to head up will accelerate the roll? Whats the solution?

Contender 541 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contender 541 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 8:54pm
	time in boat!!!!
	When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 9:08pm
	Having watched neither video, and never sailed a byte (so well informed then!), perhaps the Byte class video is focusing on stopping you swimming, whilst the rooster one is more focused on converting the roll into speed?
	-_ Al

iansmithofotley Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Otley, West Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 209	Post Options Post Reply Quote iansmithofotley Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 9:22pm
	Hi Zailor, I have always found it best to try to quickly move into the boat and, at the same time, push the tiller away and pull in a yard of mainsheet. If the boat starts to 'rock and roll', e.g. with an unstayed rig, I find it best to sheet in a bit and put some plate down until you get yourself stable and sorted out. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 10:11pm
	I tried the rooster way in my OK and couldn't believe it ..... absolutley amazing. It feels counter-intuitive to me having done the opposite for 25 years, but my 10 year old lad went to a Steve Cockerill talk just after he started racing and has done it Steve's way from the start. Okay, it's an optimist he sails rather than something unstable, but he'll go out when it's really blowy and push it to the limit downwind knowing he can recover with a quick pull of the tiller. Once you've done it a few times you'll know which is best.

Hengest Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 05 Jun 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 77	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hengest Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 10:16pm
	I'm no expert, but don't both methods achieve the same thing by in effect oversheeting the main ?

craiggo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810	Post Options Post Reply Quote craiggo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 11:04pm
	Definately bear away harder. The rudder has a bigger effect than you may think. Also as your mast is effectively the leech downwind, then bearig away actually feathers the rig a bit easing some of the power. Doesnt work on the 700 though as I cant let the main out that far!

tickler Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 03 Jun 07 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 895	Post Options Post Reply Quote tickler Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 09 at 9:01am
	What if you are already sailing dead downwind, if you bear away you will be sailing by the lee or even gybe? Also it must depend on how close you are to the mark and whether you take it to port or starboard.

Alistair426 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 02 Jun 08 Location: Vatican City State Online Status: Offline Posts: 201	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alistair426 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 09 at 9:04am
	The pointing up and sheeting in, bit more board down option is 'calming things down' the Rooster bear-away is more of a 'get out of jail when you tested the limits and just crossed them' approach. If you think about the plane of the rudder as it provides the counter-intuitive lift to the bow, it has to be getting somewhere near horizontal in the water to have the dramatic effect you experience when you do it.

zzzz Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 03 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote zzzz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 09 at 9:40am
	When you are in a death roll situation, as in: if you do nothing you are going swim, the boat is already coming on top of you, kind of situation (hence the name DEATH ROLL, traditionally this is accompanyed by panic, a brown wetsuit and just enough time for a quick expletive before hitting the water pretty hard). If you push the tiller away from you, best get your armbands on and book some swimming lessons at the local pool. The boat wants to bear away (windward heel), the rudder wants to head up, result: a big fight in which neither you or the boat will win, the water always wins that one hands down. Gotta be bear away every time (in a laser or similar type of boat such as a byte).