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Downwind in Shifts? |
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Oli
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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Topic: Downwind in Shifts? Posted: 24 Sep 09 at 3:06pm |
I always hear about people timing the shifts upwind, never held much in it myself, wind doesn't oscillate with precise regularity as far as I'm aware. Anyway if you time the shifts upwind then they will be the same downwind, so just keep the timer going and go on the beep. personally I'm looking for pressure which usually comes with a shift anyhow.
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 09 at 3:21pm |
Different types of wind produce different types of shift, I'm sure all your
tactical racing books have explained that to you. Open Sea is more likely to produced shifts that can be 'timed' but they never are/were that violent in the degree of the shift unless associated with a Geographic or thermal anomaly. Lake shifts don't even try and anyway you might be on a lift your side but so's the other guy across the lake in the opposite direction. That water that Moth Race was on is the Columbia River, the Gorge and it does have a bit of a pattern to it. It is a place you go for the wind rather than it's direction, but I have to say watching that clip and it is difficult with the foreshortening effect of the telephoto, but there were moments earlier on in the downwind leg (when he was getting passed, the AUS guy which suggests a lift at that moment, no-one overtakes that quick on a header) when I would have gybed off. It's down at Stevenson and the river quite wide there so you also could consider going right or left to avoid the upwind drift. I guess with the speed they go it's not such a concern. But no compasses then? That was all I really wanted to know, so it's back to seat of the pants and the usual clues.. Edited by G.R.F. |
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Oli
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 09 at 4:07pm |
tactical racing books? dont have time, too busy actually sailing.
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hum3
Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 09 at 4:22pm |
Er - they don't having the same timings going upwind and down. You sail into shifts faster going upwind so they appear more frequent, and the reverse is true down wind. I agree with your main point though - never timed shifts myself. Consider it to be the domain of big boats, where they have more than enough people to do such things, and where beats can last hours so might actually be useful... |
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winging it
Really should get out more Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 09 at 8:02pm |
I don't know if this is what Rick means, but in the contender I find I'm feeling the tension from the sheet - if it goes light I know it's time to gybe. More crudely I can look at my burgee, but more often than not I sail without one these days.
I'm also looking behind me a lot for the gusts and seeing what the other guys are doing. I also try to look at which boats are doing best where, because that gives you an idea of which side of the beat might be favoured. But not always. |
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the same, but different...
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charlie w
Groupie Joined: 31 Oct 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 9:03am |
GRF - look behind you....that's what DC and I do. Can only speak from the 505 perspective - although the rule is the same whether you sail hot or deep. If you have got the right gybe from the windward mark (as clearly you always will..!) then the next shift in an oscillating breeze will surely be the lovely moment when the boats behind you start heading up! At that point, the boats behind appear to be sailing higher than your line from the windward mark (whether taking angles or sailing deep). Of course you need to be sure that they are not all heading higher due to a drop in the wind strength, but you are normally then waiting for that change in your current wind. Making a call at that point is normally relatively easy. If you are behind, then a gybeset is often more advantageous (unless there is a large fleet still trekking up the beat - 505 worlds style) than the wind would suggest. The boats in front often close down each others angles between gusts and lulls. In short being in space allows you to respond to the wind - rather than simply being forced into action to maintain clear wind/manage traffic. Final thought - downwind you must always "hunt" otherwise you rapidly become the hunted. Happened to DC and I at Burton 2 weekends ago when Simon and Harry Briddon pulled a mega gybe-set at the final windward mark, and took about 200 yards out of us (and second place) on the final run!! Happens to us all...! Cheers,
Chas
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Quality never goes out of fashion.
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Oli
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 9:51am |
good point well raised, so you'd need two stopwatches, one for upwind and one for down. seems expensive, and weighty. think i'll stick to using the hairs on my neck and feel of the boat, hasnt done me too bad over the years! |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 9:53am |
Thanks folks, it was more single handing that was problematic but I think
I've sorted it now had a bit of a eureka moment last night and sorted my tacking problems.. (Went out for a bit of a tune up with my chum in his phantom (damn things just got a very slight edge until the wind puffs). Anyway it's another reason for that sailing by the lee, risky cos the header could smack a nasty uninvited gybe but watching the twisted off slack bit at the top of the sail gives lots of clues as to what's going on. And yes I do watch behind, constantly, as upperbody twist going upwind is exactly the same as windsurfing. Everythings the same really it's just contorted with added rope plus butt and knee ache.. And charisma reduction. |
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hum3
Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 11:02am |
That's quite true, and applies to other racing situtions too - especially starts. I've found that by trying to get into a solid lee-bow position on the boat to windward as the gun goes, I usually keep my lane off the start by being out of reach of the boat to leeward due to the gap created by being so close to the guy above (this depends on how agressive the guy to leeward is, but you usually have some choice about who you line up against). Obviously this shouldn't be taken too far, because you need to keep a decent VMG to the windward mark, but I find it helps focus the mind, and generally keeps me from having a slow death of falling into the leebow of the boat to leeward. |
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charlie w
Groupie Joined: 31 Oct 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 09 at 12:42pm |
my wife thinks that my hiking shorts have already raised the levels of charisma reduction in our boat.!
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Quality never goes out of fashion.
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