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Speed Limits applying to Sailing Boats?

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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Andymac

Originally posted by ColPrice2002


Hi,


<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face=Times size=3>11<SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 2">                     †† </SPAN>Speed Limits</SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face=Times><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            † </SPAN>11.1<SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">     </SPAN>No master of a vessel shall knowingly cause or permit it to be navigated at a greater speed than 6 miles per hour (eleven kilometres) through the waters of the Lake in any of the following areas:-</SPAN>


From the bylaws - the work "knowingly" is important. If you don't have a log (and that's impractical for a dinghy - nor can you use a GPS device for many classes while racing) then you can't knowingly exceed the speed(?)


Colin



I believe that is very much the case in law with pedal cycles (although many nowadays have mini computers fitted)†I don't think a†cyclist can be prosecuted for breaking a speed limit on the public highway, but can be prosecuted for reckless riding though!


Speed limits on the road only apply to "motor vehicles" (I've checked).

What cyclists can be done for is pedalling "furiously"!

(Much the same exists in the lake byelaw - there is provision for prosecution for navigating your craft recklessly or endangering others. One would think that would be sufficient to control mad sailors if and when needed!)
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AlexM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 7:41pm

I sail on the Menai Straits and in our area there is a 5 Knot speed limit for motor boats which doesn't apply to us or our safety boat

It's patrolled by the harbor master and he's always chasing people down and then we go whizzing passed them   i think we have a good working relationship with the harbor master as he will often help out when our safety boats are stretched to capacity.  However we might be an exception, our club has a very localized membership, i.e. most live with 5miles or so away, so everyone knows each other and itís treated as part of the community

Alex

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 7:52pm

Originally posted by ohFFsake


Even more of a problem is our annual "long distance" races, in which we sail the full length of the lake and back. This runs as an open event and is the highlight of our calendar, but necessitates sailing through a further 6mph limit through Bowness Bay, halfway up the lake. This year a boat was warned for doing an alleged 9kts. (I believe it was a Blaze, so again no feasible way of limiting his downwind speed).

So if we agree not to run races in the speed limit then this race has to go by the board as well, which is a great shame as it has run for donkeys years. Not only that but it runs as a charity race and usually raises about £500 for local causes.


 

Also time to aproach the local papers.  "silly speed limits means the end of charity race, and loss of visitors" etc....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by ColPrice2002

Hi,


<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face=Times size=3>11<SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 2">                     †† </SPAN>Speed Limits</SPAN>


<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face=Times><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">             † </SPAN>11.1<SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">     </SPAN>No master of a vessel shall knowingly cause or permit it to be navigated at a greater speed than 6 miles per hour (eleven kilometres) through the waters of the Lake in any of the following areas:-</SPAN>


From the bylaws - the work "knowingly" is important. If you don't have a log (and that's impractical for a dinghy - nor can you use a GPS device for many classes while racing) then you can't knowingly exceed the speed(?)


Colin


Unfortunately, that quote is from an old copy of the byelaws. In the 2008 amendment the word "knowingly" has been omitted...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 9:58pm
there was a 'situation' at the hamble warming pan a few years ago where the harbour master got on the VHF and basically told HRSC to abandon racing. It was pretty windy and there was no way the merlins were going at the speed limit for the river - but that wasn't the issue per-se it was more that it was 'dangerous'.

Why/How/when the harbour master has the authority to do that I have no idea, but could put you in touch with someone from HRSC if it helps...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 09 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by laser4000

there was a 'situation' at the hamble warming pan a few years ago where the harbour master got on the VHF and basically told HRSC to abandon racing. It was pretty windy and there was no way the merlins were going at the speed limit for the river - but that wasn't the issue per-se it was more that it was 'dangerous'.Why/How/when the harbour master has the authority to do that I have no idea, but could put you in touch with someone from HRSC if it helps...

From what you say it would seem to be a case of the Harbour Master applying a bit of experience and common sense, rather than the "jobsworth" attitude we seem to be up against.

But if you could put me in touch with someone able to confirm how sailors stand in respect of speed limits in that part of the world I'd be very grateful.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 7:27am

Originally posted by laser4000

there was a 'situation' at the hamble warming pan a few years ago where the harbour master got on the VHF and basically told HRSC to abandon racing.

There is a 6 knot limit on the river and that applies to sailing boats as well. http://www3.hants.gov.uk/hambleharbour/navigation-safety/riv er-byelaws.htm

The harbour master is well known for stopping keelboats kiting up the river but strangely enough, I can't find any basis allowing him to do so in the by-laws.

I kept a boat on the Hamble for several years and still sail out of there regularly. I don't think people regard the harbour master as officious. He's got a very busy and highly congested stretch of water to look after. Windermere can be pretty busy too but I don't think to anything approaching the same extent.

 



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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ColPrice2002 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 10:48am

Hi,

thanks for the update on the 2008 by-laws. I did take the information from the official Windemere site, so it looks like another update has happened (without publicity).

It may be necessary to have a look at the legislation that enabled the making of these by-laws. There is also the possibility of Judicial Review if they fail a "reasonable ness test" - look up "Wednesbury unreasonableness"

Colin

 

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 10:51am
Unfortunately I think its more likely that an exception for racing boats will fail a reasonableness test than vice versa...

There have been a few cases internationally of foiler Moths falling foul of harbour speed limits.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 09 at 1:29pm

[/QUOTE]

I believe that is very much the case in law with pedal cycles (although many nowadays have mini computers fitted) I don't think a cyclist can be prosecuted for breaking a speed limit on the public highway, but can be prosecuted for reckless riding though!

[/QUOTE]

I havent been prosecuted but have been stopped after setting a speed camera off when a police car was following whilst cycling downhill.

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