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luffing another boat downwind |
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ellistine
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 762 |
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Topic: luffing another boat downwind Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 10:12am |
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Was racing last night in quite a lot of wind. On the
downwind leg we we're sailing next to an RS200 at the same speed. We both had our kites up and we were to leeward. Ordinarily we would have gone out on the wire and use the leverage to head up higher but the 200 was in our way. Afterwards somebody said that we should have gone higher and the 200 would have to keep clear. If this is the case, what could he do? He wouldn't be able to head up as he would be over powered and he couldn't bear away as we were in the way. Would he really be expected to drop the kite and get out of our way? Edited by ellistine |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 10:33am | |
There are subtleties based on how the overlap was established, but fundamentally he's required to keep clear. If he has to drop the kite to do it, so be it, but you can usually do things like really hammer in the kite and stall it out to slow down and get Leeward ahead of you, should that bewhat you need to do. |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 10:49am | |
Agreed. If needed, they do need to drop the kite. |
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ellistine
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 762 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 10:54am | |
That's just got bad news written all over it!
He wouldn't be able go low to drop the kite as I'm in the way so would have to drop it whilst fully powered up. I think if it happens again I'll try the stalling the kite thing and head up behind them. As it was we both did a synchronised gybe and capsize. Luckily we got our boat back up quicker and stayed ahead. Edited by ellistine |
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olly_love
Really should get out more Joined: 18 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1145 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 11:17am | |
in that situation pre planning is the best and try not to go below somone. the chances are you wont get past and will then be stuck there. if that happens then no matter if you try to push them up they will prob get overpowered first then capsize on u or have to bear away. if there kite hits you then it may be your fault for not giving them sufficent room. but gybing off if a good option. it is depressing sitting stuck in someone elses rubbish wind |
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ellistine
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 762 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 11:35am | |
Unfortunately they we're passing us to windward but then we got sorted and we're traveling at the same speed. You're right though, a gybe would have been a good option. So much to think about! |
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timnoyce
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Aug 04 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 11:48am | |
I agree with Olly. When you round the windward mark you need to look to see what the other boats are doing. Bear in mind that symetric boats and most single handers will probably soak so will head straight for the leeward mark, and asymetrics will head off at an angle.
In this case you could have gybed away into free wind or waited before hoisting the kite to give you the chance to get over on top of the 200. Bear in mind that if its a windward leeward course you really want to be heading dead downwind, so dont head off on a reach trying to get over the top of all the boats, you need to be sensible about it! Being stuck under another boat is hugely frustrating as you realise, specially when you would normally be able to head up and have a proper fun reach downwind, but instead have to sit on the side wishing they werent there! |
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ellistine
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 762 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 12:21pm | |
It's a good point. It was a good 22kts last night gusting 28 on a windward leeward asymmetric only race. Even when going low as we could we were still planing. As we were the only trapeze boat am I right in thinking that it would still be an advantage for us to head higher than the other boats and engage warp drive or does the apparent wind thing not apply so much in such strong winds? Edited by ellistine |
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timnoyce
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Aug 04 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 12:26pm | |
Its always worth while heading up and engaging warp drive. Whats the point in going out if you're not going to enjoy yourself?!
As far as apparent wind, the effect is obviously still there regardless of the wind strength. You will just have the wind further round towards the stern than on the beam... hence why you were able to run much deeper than usual but still planing. Don't forget that symetric boats plane on a dead run when it is breezy (its just a much more wobbly experience than broad reaching), so its not a phenomenon which only happens to asymetrics. You just need to sail by feel, going as low as you can in the gusts, and heading up in the lulls to keep the boat moving fast. (although in 22-28knots you shouldnt have any problem with that!) |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 09 at 12:53pm | |
Nope; in theory, and I've not seen a Case YET on this. If he says "I need room to bear off to take the kite down to ALOOW YOU to then luff me further", you have to give him the room to take the kite down and then come back up!!! This does however opena large can of worms as how long SHOULD it take to drop the kite adn then head back up! At what windspeeds should you expect a certain type of boat to be able to luff, collapse the kite and not break someting / capsize? In a few kts of wind I can tack with my kite up; 1 kts more and I'll just blow over!
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