29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
Future Olympic Classes? |
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49erGBR735HSC
Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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Topic: Future Olympic Classes? Posted: 05 May 05 at 11:07am |
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Isn't it???? (Oh yeah, just remembered, I've not seen a cat overtake us downwind yet, even with their extra-fast kites) |
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Tornado_ALIVE
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Nov 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 12:15pm | ||||
Sorry mate....... You'll find most spinnaker cats such as F-16, F18 are quicker than a 49er up and down wind as well as around the course. The Tornadoes, M-20s, Inter 20s ect are quicker than the 18 foot skiff. The first Spinnaker Tornado to hit Sydney Harbour lined up against some 18s during a World Champs. The T was running a full skiff style kite and kite bag and was a LOT slower than current Tornadoes. Anyway the guys who were on the T started after the 18s and beat the first one to the top mark buy heaps. They sat up there and waited for the last 18 to round before they set their kite and still beat the first 18 to the bottom.
Also many years ago a marathon race was held between cats and skiffs on Sydney Hrb. The under developed spinnaker T's finised before the 18s which beat the non spinnker Ts. The 18s in those days carried bigger rigs and larger wings with the largest at 31 feet across with 46 foot stick. The C Class cats that were racing just cleaned up all boats on the course buy a HUGE margin and cats were told not to return next year. Just a bit of OZ sailing history for you. |
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49erGBR735HSC
Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 12:41pm | ||||
Notice the point though, the Normal Ts were beaten by the 18s, which suggests that maybe the boats were pretty close and the kites on the other Ts gave them the advantage over the 18s. From a design point of veiw, the 18s have developed themselves in such a way that they sail most effectively. Yes, they used to carry much bigger rigs, etc, but the reduction developments came about to make the boat more effective to sail. Theres no point in having a massive rig, really wide wings, etc if you can't use most of the power from it and its difficult to sail. What Frank Bethwaithe was hinting in his book was that the new rules create boats with smaller rigs but more effective power, so you you get more speed for less sail. RMW seem to have followed that concept as well because they have a smaller kite on their 18 but its cut to generate more effective power than lost power. Anyway, I was speaking toungue in cheek about cats not overtaken us downwind, but it still hasn't happened yet........ Edited by 49erGBR735HSC |
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Tornado_ALIVE
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Nov 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 1:17pm | ||||
No worries mate. For the record the old big rig 18s were quicker than the new ones in a straight line. The new ones should be more efficent around the bouys as they are more manouverable.. Secondly the "Normal Ts" I refer too were non spinnaker boats long before the class adopted spinnakers. The T whilst trialing the kites used larger, fuller kites and found they did not offer greater around the bouy advantages. With poor shaped sails and even poorer spinnaker retrieval systems the T was initialy as quick if not slower around the course as a non spin T and the members of the ITA voted against the change. After pressure from the IOC and ISAF to move with the times or face being dropped as the Olympic class the ITA adopted the spinnaker and developed it over several years before making it class legal. In the last couple of years the T has become a lot quicker than pre and even early spinnaker days. The T is set to become quicker agian for the comming season with the Introduction of carbon Mast. We may well see in the future, carbon beams and more efficient dagger boards which would take the T into another leauge again. |
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49erGBR735HSC
Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 1:20pm | ||||
Hasn't there been problems with the Carbon masts though? |
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Tornado_ALIVE
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Nov 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 1:39pm | ||||
Nope, their already using them. Came into effect after Athens and Marstrom have been building them for more than 10 years now (not officialy used). Forbes had one in Oz for many years. Masts should be stronger and lighter. I think from 26 kg to 14 kg. Not as radicaly light as an A Class stick. Just more reliable and more capable of withstanding the loads of the new spinnaker. Carbon Mast update January 14, 2005 http://www.tornado.org/html/news_article.asp?ArticleID=57 Carbon Mast update February 23, 2005 http://www.tornado.org/html/news_article.asp?ArticleID=68 Carbon Mast update March 18, 2005 http://www.tornado.org/html/news_article.asp?ArticleID=78
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49erGBR735HSC
Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 1:48pm | ||||
That's good news, must have been some other cat that I was getting confused with. Have you came accross a Stealth 18 yet? One is going to start living down at our club from this weekend onwards. They sound like radical boats - T-Foils, plaining hulls and hopefully big kites too... |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 May 05 at 9:44pm | ||||
Come to Grafham and I'll show you my Inter 17 go faster upwind and down. Only previso is that there needs to be some wind. Anything over a F3 and I would usually plan to lap the 49ers after about 60 minutes of sailing. (5 laps).
Where the 49er gains in the lighter wind performance, the 49er gets powered up ealier than my Inter 17 and so I will struggle to stay with them in the lighter stuff. This will change when I get my new (secret for now) boat, just need to sell my 17 first
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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NeilP
Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 05 at 1:07pm | ||||
Who said anything about "growing a market"?? I just want to go and sail my boat. I'm perfectly happy to accept that everyone out there has their own reasons for sailing whatever they sail. Don't want the whole world to be sailing FD. We have 100+ boats at Worlds and Euros, and I sail a beautiful, fast, hi-tech, durable, well-developed and immensely seaworthy boat. So tell me again why I should worry about TV viewers or spectators? |
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Granite
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 May 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 476 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 May 05 at 1:22pm | ||||
The reason for worrying about TV viewers is that we are all TV viewers from time to time and if the sport looks interesting to the execs they are more likely to put it on then we get a chance to watch some sailing on TV |
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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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