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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sails not full
    Posted: 20 May 09 at 8:39am

fleaberto:

Anticipation is the name of the game... thinking ahead... like in a chess game, thinking 3 or 4 movs ahead.

As you sail down the line towards the pin end, keep looking around. Once you see the danger approaching in the form of a Laser, you have 3 choices:

1) As you did, get luffed over the line, andhave to start behind people.

2) Speed up, cross the bow of the Laser, and then luff to slow down again. You are now leeward boat, and he has to luff to avoid you. But you need to get ahead of and to leeward of the Laser early enough.

3) Slow down and allow the Laser to go ahead of you and have "the best" start off the pin end, and you accept the 2nd best by starting just up the line from him. This is much better than being luffed over the line!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 5:08pm

This month's Y&Y has an article on starting.

you normally need to be a few boat lengths back from the line to prevent this happening and then start accelerating at the right time.  There are ways to defend but you need to be aware of the situation developing.  Lots of starting practice is probably the best way to develop the necessary skills.

If you would like acopy of the beginners guide to racing CD which is used at BCYc for the start racing course PM me your address and I'll put one in the post (donation to sailability if you find it helpful)!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fleaberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 4:42pm

Sorry scoob, i didn't really explain it too well to be honest, suffice to say that yeah, whilst the issue of room etc came to my mind, the answers given by Gordon & Jim have cleared that up for me. Just wanted to get it clear in my mind really, no intention of a protest - wouldn't have stood anyway - and i'm not fussed about having to go around, just wanted to check and get it sorted in my brain. Yeah, i had to move away but as pointed out, that's all the name of the game i guess   Lesson for next time? - make sure i stay at the back hahaha! - and read a bit more of my rule book.

Cheers guys.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 3:36pm
Yep, as Gordon says, he has to give you room [=time] to keep clear, *but* if in order to keep clear you end up going over the line and are OCS then so be it. That's a risk of being on the line early/on time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 2:51pm
As you rightly point out, if a boat establishes an overlap to leeward then they acquire a right of way. You, as windward boat have to keep clear (rule 11), and they have to give you room to keep clear (rule 15). In addition, if the overlap was established from clear astern then leeward boat may not, after the starting signal, sail above her proper course, which on a beat is close-hauled.

1. It should be noted that you do not have to start keeping clear until the overlap is established, you do not have to anticipate.

2. If keeping clear means you have to tack, or cross the start line, that is your bad luck.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by fleaberto

Ok, here's one from me.

Firstly, i'm an inexperienced racer that, generally, just tries to stay out of everyones way  .... however, on Sunday, i found myself making a cracking start, right up at the far end (most were at the committee boat end). About 3 seconds off the start - i'd have hit the line with about 1 to spare) - a fast reaching laser came up on my port side, slightly converging courses, we're both on Starboard and i (think) i understand that he was going to get the overlap AND i was windward boat so, technically i have to keep clear? .... however, the laser did come very fast to the line and very close to me - to the point where i had no room in order to keep clear and had to tack around just as i reached the line (right on the start end marker) in order to give him room.

Now, as i said, my position was more luck than anything & i just wanted to keep clear so, right now, i'm not into protesting anyone...BUT, as i understand it, whilst he had right of way, he also has to give me room to keep clear? There was no room other than to go OCS & around the start pin or go away and turn right round...that's what i did and ended up at the back of the fleet instead of (possibly) winning the start.

I just want to be clear so that my understanding increases.

Would i have been justified in protesting or was it just one of those things?

 

Something not right here.

1, Fast reaching laser, so not sailing up wind?

2, Converging course with you; thus you were sailing LOWER?

3, No room to avoid, yet you managed to tack?  in tacking you would have pushed your stern towards the other boat.

4, maybe a diagram would help?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fleaberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 09 at 1:39pm

Ok, here's one from me.

Firstly, i'm an inexperienced racer that, generally, just tries to stay out of everyones way  .... however, on Sunday, i found myself making a cracking start, right up at the far end (most were at the committee boat end). About 3 seconds off the start - i'd have hit the line with about 1 to spare) - a fast reaching laser came up on my port side, slightly converging courses, we're both on Starboard and i (think) i understand that he was going to get the overlap AND i was windward boat so, technically i have to keep clear? .... however, the laser did come very fast to the line and very close to me - to the point where i had no room in order to keep clear and had to tack around just as i reached the line (right on the start end marker) in order to give him room.

Now, as i said, my position was more luck than anything & i just wanted to keep clear so, right now, i'm not into protesting anyone...BUT, as i understand it, whilst he had right of way, he also has to give me room to keep clear? There was no room other than to go OCS & around the start pin or go away and turn right round...that's what i did and ended up at the back of the fleet instead of (possibly) winning the start.

I just want to be clear so that my understanding increases.

Would i have been justified in protesting or was it just one of those things?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 09 at 7:18pm
Got two events to set up (NOR, SIs and such). as soon as I have that I'll do something on windward/leeward and running by the lee.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 09 at 7:18pm
Quickly looking at the 88-92 rules I can't see anything that would have changed the interpretation.
Garry

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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 09 at 7:13pm

Thank you Gordon,

As ever, you are 100% precise (and concise) with your answers.

I didn't mean to imply that 'running by the lee' definition was included in tack, just that somebody might have not understood the definition of windward/leeward side which could be equally relevant (although not to the original question posted in this thread).

Andy Mc.

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