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Development = faster?

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Javelin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Javelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 04 at 12:56am

I dont know whether you have noticed but the Laser 4000 handicap went up one point this year, so did the RS800, now two points better off and the FD is one point worse off. eh???
Take the FD, around 15 boats active in the UK and their PY shifts with no significant change in the boat in years, in fact the FD PY has gone up and down like a yoyo over the past few years, how many Merlins, Stratos, RS400 etc are there? has their PY moved at all?
Something aint right.
My local Club, we'll go out, race, come back, take the boat off the water, buy a cup of tea, roll a fag and watch the second boat cross the line 15 plus minutes after we finished and we still come fourth.
So guess what we don't sail there anymore but niether do a lot of others because its deemed pointless and unless clubs and OODs are given guidance manufacturer supplied handicaps and seeming imovable PY's will kill handicap racing in small clubs for good.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 04 at 2:00pm
It might just be that the RS400 or Stratos handicaps are righ???
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 04 at 11:02pm
I sail a 4000 and I don't stand an earthly against 400s in my club - but then I sail on a reservoir!  I don't care - I know my boat is better in wide open spaces and strong steady winds.  If you sail a high performance boat you do get a wider grin at the end of the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 04 at 1:21pm
Do you actually know how much difference on point or two points of PY make? Dowload a copy of something like sailwave (or make up a spreadsheet), type in results of a handicap race ir two at your club, and play around with different PYs. You'll be amazed at how much the numbers will need to be changed to make much difference to the results...
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 04 at 3:12pm

I've noticed that too.  We have very close racing with 29ers in our 4000 and they are over 20 points different.  Similarly it is easy to get thrashed boat for boat with a RS400 if the wind is light. 

The biggest shock is against symetrical spinnaker boats.  Boats like Wayfarers, their little kites mean they can go higher than us off the wind in a breeze and downwind they can sail straight down the rhumb line which pays in the light stuff.  We do however have much wider grins than they.

By the way, a golden rule when sailing in mixed fleets, never try to go through a Wayfarer's lee!

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Garry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 8:19pm
Has anyone noticed that the biggest gains can be made by actually sailing every race in the series. Next best is a good start so you do the first beat in clear wind, thirdly not making any major mistakes and playing the shifts / tide / current - by comparison the handicap makes only a marginal difference to the average sailor - you notice the handicap at events like the Bloody Mary because so many 'good' sailors are competing against each other in different classes.
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 8:59pm
Garry's right to.  I have literally boxes of trophies in the loft - sounds immodest but I'm afraid I'm just an average sort of bloke who just keeps turning up!
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Neil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 10:12pm

Redback/Gary, I can't agree more...

I come consistently last, but I turn up, and at the moment, about 7 races into a series, I'm 5th overall! 

1 point on handicap is only worth about 3.5 secs in the hour...

and Redback... some of them 29'er's are just too darned fast for their own good...! watch that yardstick start to tumble!

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 10:04am
The 29er yardstick has been all over the shop.  I remember when it first arrived in the UK it was raced at the bloody mary off the same handicap as the 4000's, it then went down to 940 and promtly won every event.  Its been hovering around 924 for a while now.  Personally I can just about sail to that, but my usual partner and I weigh 24 stone all up wheras the top guys are less than 20 I think.  Part of it is that people have now mastered the boat and also the optimum crew weight has dropped.  I reckon a value of about 918-921 is about right now which puts it level with an RS600 which seems right. 
FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
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Ent Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ent Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 12:54pm

Handicaps can not account for variations in conditions or the skills of individual sailors.  I don't think enought clubs are completing the returns which would improve the accuracy of the PY's.  There is another issue.  In some classes the better boats hardly ever club race or may be lucky enough to have fleet racing at their club. This means that their performance isn't visable to the RYA.  This will affect the yardsticks. It was mentioned a while back the the Merlins were spending money on improving materials and systems in their boats to make them perform better but there was no impact on the yardsticks.  They had a very good show at the bloddy mary but could those boats be the one traveling to opens etc and not doing club racing on a regualr basis?

Perhaps the yardsticks should be decided by a number of mixed class events where associations are invited to send their best and brightest. Failure to turn out results in their handicap dropping by 1 point.

 

Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!
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