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Approaching the windward mark |
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Topic: Approaching the windward mark Posted: 25 Feb 05 at 11:30pm |
Two boats approaching the windward mark which has to be rounded to starboard. The 2nd boat has an overlap on the first, which prevents him from tacking, what should the first boat do? Luff head-to-wind until the other boat tacks or falls behind?
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Feb 05 at 7:38am |
Are you talking fleet racing? If so, 1st boat just tacks when the 2nd boat tacks. There is no reason for the 2nd boat to go beyond the layline. Yes the 1st boat will be behind as a result. Presumably they got into this situation by tacking into the safe leeward position under 2nd boat and that was a mistake. They should have ducked then tacked on the starboard-tack layline to windward of 2nd boat. After the finish, 1st boat explains to the race officer why starboard-hand windward marks are best saved for team racing:)
Edited by Stefan Lloyd |
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Feb 05 at 11:13am |
Thanks for that. Yes I was talking fleet racing. Its as I suspected - the leading boat cannot tack until the overlaped boat does, but he can luff head-to-wind. At our club we do try and go for port rounding - its safer, but starboard rounding does make for some interesting situations. |
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TheSeaFalcon
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Mar 05 at 2:03pm |
Since you seem incredibly clued up on this rounding the mark malarky, could u help on a slight problem??!! I would like to know, a) how you know which one is windward, and which one isn't, sorry that's such a simple question but im ill at the mo, and can't get my head round it and b) what racing rule 18 is - it should be something to do with rounding a mark.... oh well, it'd be great if you could help, ta!! |
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Topper 41825 Cherub 2539 (going, going and not quite but nearly gone)! |
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KnightMare
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Mar 05 at 10:24pm |
Isnt a windward mark one that you have to sail close hauled to (dont quote me im just going by logic,) I searched the definitions in the rule book and it doesnt have it. 18 Rounding And Passing Marks and Obstructions in short if the boats are overlapped, then the outside boat shall give the inside boat room to round the mark, and if the inside boat has right of way the ouside boat shall also keep clear. It doesnt apply at start marks (if surrounded by navigable water) and if the boats are on oposite tacks, and the proper cours for one or both boats to get round the mark is to tack. I hope this helps and doesnt confuse you further. If you want the rule in full give me a post (but I only have the 2001-2004 rules at the moment) |
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Mar 05 at 7:47am |
Like Knightmare I couldn't find a definition of a windward mark but I think his logic is good. And my understanding is that the inside boat does have right of way in these circumstances and so the outside boat will have to wait for the inside boat to tack. Even if the inside boat is behind - although he must be overlapped. |
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TheSeaFalcon
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Mar 05 at 7:39pm |
I think i love u knightmare....joke!!! But really, ta thanks sooooooooo much!!! Ta to redback too, u seem full of all sorts of vital info!!!!! Thnx! |
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Topper 41825 Cherub 2539 (going, going and not quite but nearly gone)! |
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flat is fast
Posting king Joined: 09 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 12:19pm |
i had a situation at my club this weekend where by we were approcing the windward mark on starboard and my dad sailing the same type of boat behind me did not have an overlap but he said i tacked in his water who was in the right??
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no fear
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 1:45pm |
I think you'll find that as soon as you tack you lose your rights - so you have to keep clear. The best tactic is to luff which slows you and the other boat will then overlap to leeward, you are then free to tack.
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 1:58pm |
Not always true I think; Outside can be on dodgy ground even if Inside is not overlapping. The situation we are talking about is two boats close-hauled on starboard approaching a mark to be taken to starboard. Then rule 18 applies if they are both on starboard at the two-boatlength circle and Inside, if overlapping, has rights. However if they are not bang on the layline and Outside tacks onto port outside the 2BL circle, rule 18 does not apply (18.1b). Therefore whether overlapped or not, Inside has right under rule 10 (port/starboard) and also possibly under rule 13 (keeping clear while tacking). |
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