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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 10:54pm
Graham why dont you design your own boat there are pleanty of resources around today and pleanty of people that would be more than happy to help, building carbon or even foam sandwich hulls are fairly easy to build.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 8:43am
Originally posted by sargesail

Nick,

I wouldn't pay 10K - I wouldn't pay 2K!  My 300 is the perfect hiking singlehander!

Matt

Here here. Unless there is a decent single hander hiker with a kite there is no life after the 300 for a single hander hiker. May be the Vareo should had been the 300 with a kite.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 9:03am

Blaze 720 sorry I'm confused as to why you have posted the Asymmetric Blaze picture?

In the past whenever this project has been raised, there has been good interest, but as far as I know you have all ways stated that it would not happen. There is a real niche here that a Blaze Asym could easily fill.

Now the hull is nice stiff Epoxy it would stand up to the rig loads of an Asymmetric really well, possibly a larger main, as well as the additional load of potentially widening the wings like the B14. This would transform the Blaze into fully planing mode upwind and make it awesome downwind. As it will never be as fast as a Musto you would gain the fun of tactical downwind asymmetric shenanigans. Through thoughtful choice of kite size (IMHO the V3000 kite seems a little large) you would be able to get the Blaze Asym around a club course / beam reach, keeping it manageable for the less experienced and enjoy the extra tactics. This would all bode well for the class with close tactical racing and prevent the corner banging of the likes of the Musto and 700 ( I appreciate Musto and 700 sailors that the higher end of the fleet are able to make these tactical gains but for the mere mortals banging the correct corner seems to be fastest)

So has the time come? Will we see a Blaze Asym? Only Blaze 720 can answer that ... ?

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Inland sea


So has the time come? Will we see a Blaze Asym? Only
Blaze 720 can answer that ... ?



So, I take it from that Blaze 720 would be the guy at the dinghy show I
might have spoken to once?

Is it a class owned hull?

Who owns the moulds?

What's to stop someone just knocking them off and building this thing
called something else entirely then, if the class are so pedantic they can't
see the obvious..?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Inland sea

Blaze 720 sorry I'm confused as to why you have posted the Asymmetric Blaze picture?

So has the time come? Will we see a Blaze Asym? Only Blaze 720 can answer that ... ?


This boat has been knocking around for a number of yars with the assy 'modification'. It was discussed extensively at a couple of AGMs and pretty much unanimously rejected by the class. The resoning is that the boat is accessible to pretty much anyone, it is easy to sail but very hard to master and responds well to a lot of time in the boat. It was felt that adding an assymetric to the boat would put it out of reach of most of the current ownership (which is growing nicely). This does not preclude people who wish to play though.

For those who are a bit on the large side they are developing the 'Blaze 100' (name to be decided) which has a large sail and is designed with people who are 100 KGs + in mind. It will be primarily aimed at the US markets but there have been murmerings over here of a lot of interest so it may get launched here too.

Blaze 720 being the builder (with Rondar making the hulls) is able to comment more on this.

I believe the class owns the moulds (having bought them from Topper when they stopped making GRP boats) but the rights are still owned by someone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:12am

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Inland sea

Blaze 720 sorry I'm confused as to why you have posted the Asymmetric Blaze picture?

So has the time come? Will we see a Blaze Asym? Only Blaze 720 can answer that ... ?

 

This boat has been knocking around for a number of yars with the assy 'modification'. It was discussed extensively at a couple of AGMs and pretty much unanimously rejected by the class. The resoning is that the boat is accessible to pretty much anyone, it is easy to sail but very hard to master and responds well to a lot of time in the boat. It was felt that adding an assymetric to the boat would put it out of reach of most of the current ownership (which is growing nicely). This does not preclude people who wish to play though.

 

In fairness though Jeffers this was the only boat I have heard of that had the asym fitted properly. Would it not be wise to revisit it now the hull is epoxy? May be a smaller Kite? It certainly wouldn't cost much to add a 'Kite pack' that would be attainable by the current membership. IMHO I think a trick really is being missed by the Blaze as other boats that have converted are not the best.

IC :- from those that I have spoken too 'On a club course they are dangerous as you can not see to leward from the sliding seat.' In translation what was meant by this statement was that you can not run up and down the side if the boat to change your viewing angle as you can with a trapeze boat.

Vortex :- Has a habit of nose diving (please correct me if I am wrong) but certainly the complication of a trapeze.

Vareo :- Damn hard work upwind but a real blast downhill

Are there any other active classes out there?

An asymmetric Blaze would not only be fun uphill and down but is a simple stable hiking platform to work from learn with.

And how would it not benefit in the same way with rewarding time in the boat. Surely Upwind technique would remain with the added new tactical gains and losses to be made finding the shifts and pressure downwind.

Hey it could even be put up for the Olympic heavyweight class in the future

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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:26am
Well if we'd listened to "The Class" sailboards would never have had
footstraps fitted.

They listened to the Mistral class about the introduction of the Hybrid
Prodigy, they rejected it, now the Pryde RSX is the Olympic board and no-
one sails Mistral anymore.

Having experienced first hand the difficulties involved in a beach
unfriendly design like the MPS, yet still yearning for the thrill and
challenge single handing a spinnaker driven boat, it seems like a
commercial no brainer to me.

I'd also be inclined to put a wire option, seems to me an easy way onto
the wire with those racks for lightweights to get out that little bit further
if the breeze permits.

I fancy one anyway, I just need to ask our local Blaze jockey why he
dumped it in favor of a contender, which he's been out in all of twice this
season. I seem to recall he said he found it tricky, but then he's from oop
North they find everything tricky
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:58am

Paul etc

The rights and tooling are owned by Cirrus but we work very closely with the CA who are totally independent.  The ultimate design rights are owned by others but we now have an agreement in place to purchase them.  The Blaze has a very successful niche of its own and sales are still expanding (16 already delivered and 3 more in production since March) but the CA is rightly cautious about changing a successful formula (if it aint broke don't 'repair' it !) .... we agree with them btw.  The changes we have made to date are to do with refinement under CA guidance and both the CA and Cirrus have been careful to ensure that 'new' boats do not totally outclass early ones - it is still identical hulls, foils, spars, sails - you really can buy an old Blaze, give it loads of tlc and maybe a new sail and get right up there.  

Cirrus are however investigating derivatives particularly for sales overseas.  As is widely known we are developing a 'big guys' version that will have a rather innovative rig on it but use 'all Blaze' below the boom - if launched in the UK it will be aimed exclusively at larger helms and will have the power for them.  This will feature a taller, rotational mast and the current favorite is an imported Ozzi 'wing section' that is overrotated with a larger fat-head sail.   This will be stepped on the boat in the next two weeks and a first development sail will follow very quickly.  In other words we are going for high efficiency as well as a larger sailplan - I have raced both boards and Tasars in the past and am totally convinced that improved sail shape whether via camber inducers or over-rotation of the right section is an under-exploited area for general dinghy use.

Anyway - Spinnakers .... Yes these have been tried on the basic boat.  They work very well but yes the 3000 one is a tad on the ambitious side - but we have some better photos of that one !!  The question is not whether it can be done but if there is a real market for it beyond a small band of forumites - same as any new idea here.  I really like the Musto skiff myself in this part of the market and think it is the best of what it does - and there are plenty of other similar classes out there already as well.  A Blaze spinnaker variant would not be in the same area of the market but would of course be fun to develop and to race but we are not sure there is sufficient potential in the UK for it as a commercial proposition.  A '100' variant on the other hand is aiming at a different, and for us, new market and potential new group of owners - and so might be the right platform at some point .... in the future.  (and we do not give too too much away in forums until ready !).  One step at a time for now - many a builder has rushed to market far too quickly and perhaps a few have lived to regret it in the past 20 years. 

Blaze720 (aka Cirrus Raceboats)

GRF - Why not give the MPS another go ?  Tricky.... perhaps but it would seem to fit your broad requirements pretty well and as with everything time in the boat is the key.  ... or perhaps something like small high performance cat with spinni - Shadow (?). You are welcome to try a Blaze but I'm not sure it is what you are after.    

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:59am

If your going for a hiking Una sailed boat GRF having tried most   the 300 is the only hiker that rewards soooo much. Simple no fiddly wings to play with or too many bits of string to play with and rigging to get right. And you can even reef it when it gets silly windy. Yes they can be tricky beasts but due to there lack of weight and manouverability they are sooo much fun in the waves  With the tippy dagerboard thingy they are easy to get on and off the beach too.

Try one you may well be surprsed

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 12:44pm
Why not develop a kite kit and give the option??  Surely this is a low cost option and gives the Blaze as a brand a huge ammount of versatility??  It worked bloody well for the Vortex (An assy kit i think is about a grand)  That means you could pick up an old blaze say 1500 - 2 buy an assy kit 1000 and have a vareo alternative that actually does up wind?  or am i talking garbage again??
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