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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

This could be an interesting thread....if one was to develop a new hiking singlehander with kite, what should it be like....

Performance upwind (est PY)?. Round the course performance (Est PY)?

Racks / solid wings? Performance equalised? Or just simple like 300?

Centreboard / daggerboard?

"unstayed" (no forestay) for easy hoist / gybe like Vareo, or fully rigged like MPS/700.? Or a combination?

If one went balls out and did the ultimate qualiy boat would you pay 10k for complete package with combi / covers?

 Mainsheet style? What about a little self-tacking jib?

Nick.

10k for a singlehander is a lot of money - for that I would want top quality international competion, not just UK based.  And it seems that such a high quality boat would be competing against the established trapeze singlehanders 700/MPS/F16/A Class/Canoe (honorary trapeze boat!) etc.

So I would rather see something a bit more moderate and cheaper - the Vareo appears a good concept but doesn't seem to have quite hit the nail on the head - perhaps a little too dumbed down?

I think I would be looking for such a boat to perform similarly to a RS400 upwind and down, so a PY of around 950.  Any slower and the performance advantage over the Phantom, Laser, 300, Blaze etc would be too small to warrant the extra expense and hassle of the kite.  And at 950ish, you can race the 400's, Fireballs, 500's, 29ers etc more closely over the water.  Any faster and you risk raising the required skill/dedication level above the mainstream.

Personally I believe that if the hull is long enough and the rig adjustable enough, performance equalisation is not necessary, but it probably doesn't do any harm to design in such a system.  Again, my personal preference would be for short (approx 40-50cm) trampoline wings - a sort of dumbed sown Moth look.    

Daggerboards v centreboard - I prefer a dagger myself (if only because it means no annual change of the slot gaskets!), but understand that they aren't ideal in some locations.

Shroud v free standing.  The 300 rig is aesthetically beautiful, but I can't imagine something similar with a kite.  So I would go for shrouds and forestay with the forestay on a short base a la 700.

Finally, I have a pet hate of metal on boats.  I would want as little metal on the boat as possible (carbon spars, rope attachements etc).

Of course, rather than a kite you could always go with a swing rigged jib...

Oh, and I reserve the right to change my mind on these answers on a whim.

Toby (formerly Chew my RS, but lost my log in!)



Edited by Peaky
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 10:03am

Nick,

I wouldn't pay 10K - I wouldn't pay 2K!  My 300 is the perfect hiking singlehander!

Matt

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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 4:39pm
Something like a centre sheeted N12 with self tacking jib and asym.


Edited by timeintheboat
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 5:26pm
Well what a co-incidence this is, another missed day today crewless and
I'm now looking for a single hander, lots of what's been written above
would suit me.

Cross between an MPS, & Contender.

I like the idea of a self tacking jib, so a solution to Irons those two craft
always seem to find themselves in.

Definitely a retracting centreboard, PY around 950 not worried about
equalisation but would want it to be useable in 25 knots on the sea.

Would want to learn to trapeze and it to have a spinnaker so I wont get
bored offwind.

Perfect boat for me would be a scaled down Alto with all the same gizmos

Oh and find a way to give the rig a sliding track, so it would cook a bit
offwind and keep the nose up in a following sea, not much to ask.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Well what a co-incidence this is, another missed day today crewless and
I'm now looking for a single hander, lots of what's been written above
would suit me.

Cross between an MPS, & Contender.

I like the idea of a self tacking jib, so a solution to Irons those two craft
always seem to find themselves in.

Definitely a retracting centreboard, PY around 950 not worried about
equalisation but would want it to be useable in 25 knots on the sea.

Would want to learn to trapeze and it to have a spinnaker so I wont get
bored offwind.

Perfect boat for me would be a scaled down Alto with all the same gizmos

Oh and find a way to give the rig a sliding track, so it would cook a bit
offwind and keep the nose up in a following sea, not much to ask.

Would you really want a swinging pole on a singlehander? Especially a trapeze opne (and this thread was as a starter about hiking ones)? I reckon anything you'd gain on angles you'd lose on swimming after gybes due to increased complication. I may be wrong, but then I'm a fan of simple things. Which may say a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paul B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by JimC

Performance equalisation does seem to be a bit last century, but I never liked the idea so maybe I'm biased. Also do you think anyone's ever got it to work even partially well in a singlehander?


My experience is that it does work...  up to a point.  You're never going to be able to equalise perfectly, so maybe "Performance Tinkering" would be a better phrase...

In the 700, we've seen the Performance Tinkering work really quite well.  I remember a very light wind day at the Nationals some time ago, with a furious 65kg Jason Belben getting rolled down the last run by a less-than-svelte 90+kg Andy White.

Similarly in a fresh-to-frightening nationals a few years later, I remember Jason winning the windiest race by sailing really well and going really fast. 

I somehow doubt that those results would have occurred without the Tinkering system.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 7:54pm
Has the blaze always had a spinnaker?

And what's it like as an off the beach boat?

Strikes me it might be worth considering, I shall go and check its PY.

I'm wondering also, is it the boat the French had built with a centreboard
or
was that something else?

The swinging pole thing works only when it's light weather, and it's then
one
is at one's most bored and/or looking for tactical advantage.


Edit: Clearly not, at least it's not on the blaze site, and I've given up trying
to join the blaze yahoo group, how stupidly complicated that is. So wht's
going on? Another experimental development boat? Sign me up

Edited by G.R.F.
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 10:14pm
Graham, no the blaze doesent have one normally, there has been one retrofitted as seen earlier its a v3000 kite.
Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 08 at 10:52pm
Strikes me that could eventually be a 'sensible' Musto.

Especially if a wire 'option' were added.

Only downside, having searched and read all the Blaze X, and Vareo
Development threads, neither is likely to happen and with Rondar in the mix,
even if they wanted to it would be years before anything happened.

Honestly it's like wading through treacle waiting for anything 'exciting' to
happen in this dinghy lark and when it does, it takes forever to put it right.

Edited by G.R.F.
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