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Topic: Devotti Single Hander Posted: 25 Nov 09 at 8:19pm |
Rodney et al
I am amazed that this appears to get so heated. Lets just talk about the boats. I think with the exception of certain people who cannot seem to be positive about anything, that the d-one has had pretty favourable comments here. Personally I don't dislike the look of the boat or I wouldn't have bothered you, to let me sail it. It is unconventional in looks in comparison to others and it's 'Finn'ness means it is 'different' to sail, in comparison to some other boats. Yes it looks beamy, yes the mast looks close to the bow and if you haven't been a Finn sailor it may therefore all a bit more challenging to understand. However, that doesn't bother me or anyone else who is in the market for such a boat. I am only interested in buying a boat which I enjoy sailing, which has a sensible handicap. I Think TIMG has given an interesting insight to the learning process for those who have not sailed the Finn and is clearly enjoying it. I, like many who will buy this type of boat will largely be club sailing. The cost and the power of the boat means that plenty of purchasers will be 35-50 year olds who are unable to trudge round a UK circuit every weekend. Club racing, the odd event and a charter boat in Garda is not a bad combination. As far as I have seen most of the negative comments have been made by people who not seen the boat 'in the flesh' never mind sailed it. I have seen and sailed both and have tried to be as neutral as possible in all posts and just give feedback to people who appear genuinely interested in these developments. Both this and the 100 are great for the market and have their place. They look different, and the boats are very different in feel and I expect technique. It doesn't mean either is right or wrong. I hope that you and TIMG keeping posting in response to questions about the boat and just ignore those who seem intent on creating some sort of debate. |
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Merlinboy
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 09 at 8:28am |
Rodney, Everyone is entitles to their own opinion, even more so on a OPEN PUBLIC forum. That is the beauty of the beast! Its sad that you feel personally insulted and feel you must in protest no longer post, i would never want my postings to make anyone feel that way and if they have i am extremely sorry. I have commented positively more then once about the D-One, but will comment again i find it odd looking. That doesn't mean its a bad ship!! I think my wife is beautiful, butt I'm sure there are plenty of people around who think she is ugly (I hope she doesn't read this) The point is different people like different things, if we all liked the same the world would be f**king boring! Regarding the arrogant comment, i don't know how many more times i have to say it certainly isn't about you! Read back some of Lucas recent posts, then tell me if any of them stink of arrogance? I don't know the guy, but i know what he has achieved in the past hence why you will never find me questioning him. But to answer someones question or statement with that OTT drivel sounded arrogant. Maybe its the language break down? I don't know! Once again please don't stop posting here because the D-One thread has turned into a war zone, your input is valued. Edited by Merlinboy |
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Norbert
Far too distracted from work Joined: 31 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 09 at 8:08am |
Rodders ^^^^^
Don't let the pygmies get you down. Nil illigitimus carborundum and all that. Just because there are some ar**holes here doesn't mean we all are. I for one appreciate your inputs as much as i like Luca's. |
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rodney
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 915 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 09 at 5:42am |
Posted on another thread
Russ, Retracting the posting on this thread changes nothing! In fact I think that the posting I am quoting is yet another attack and any reference to a PM between you and me was inappropriate as it was, after all, a PM! You know that I feel personally insulted but so does Luca and also all those who have taken the step to buy a D-One, TIMG for example. I personally think that you crossed the line on this one but then I have learned that this is one of the traits of forums. As this is likely to be my last posting I will do my best to make my position clear. I had never been involved in forums until the D-One thread was started here and only started posting when the D-One was under severe attack. The severity of these attacks over several months is way beyond my understanding. The D-One is an outstanding and highly innovative new dinghy which I sincerely believe will pave the way for future developments in the years to come. The attacks have been constant with the word ugly coming into play on a regular basis. The fact is that for the few who say the boat is ugly here there are many more around the world who's opinions differ but the seed has been purposely sewn as this clever criticism is purely subjective. The fact is that I, along with a host of other people, love the look of the D-One. More important is that fact that the D-One rates as being one of the finest dinghies I have ever sailed, don't just taken my word on this but read the reviews or talk to the people who have sailed a D-One. The D-One is Luca's baby and he has been passionate about the boat to the point where his investment in the project has been huge with not hours but accumulated months of input going into getting as close to the perfect boat as possible. Interestingly all of the people who have criticised this or that about the D-One have, ipso facto, been critical of one of the top dinghy designers around and also some of the best sailors in the world who have input time and experience into the project. The fact is that it is easy to criticise and I am sure that once I have done this posting I will re-read it for the umpteenth time and criticise it again. Are the cheap shots at the D-One done just for fun? If so I think it a very sad world where people get their kicks from try to destroy, from their keyboards, the result of two years hard work, from a team of dedicated people. I am a newbie here and as such have been trying to understand the rules but it seems that if anyone either involved in the D-One project or, worse still, even likes the boat is accused of viral marketing (whatever that is?). So, I think that some of the people posting here are looking to be critical and rude about us (Luca and his development team, the designer of the D-One, TIMG and others who have bought or ordered a boat, the press and me) both implicitly and explicitly with no attempt to understand the boat, the rig or the concepts behind it. We have tried our best to clarify the issues that make the D-One such a fantastic boat but every effort has been thwarted through clever and sometimes articulate responses which I now believe were intended for just one purpose, to wind us up! I have seen racism and character assassination on the threads and am amazed that the moderators have tolerated this. Potential defamatory comments and racism should not happen anywhere but I am further amazed that the sport of sailing, my love for the past 37 years, comes to this. Call me naive but I have always thought of all those who sail as friends as we share a common passion and I have never, yes I mean never, been critical of anyone's choice of boat. Different classes fit different peoples budgets, aspiration, age, size, levels of fitness and sailing waters so it would be arrogant of me to find fault in their choice. Luca Devoti is a visionary and through launching the D-One he has opened up a new world for a whole bunch of people who want the fun and excitement of a single handed, high performance asymmetric without the need to be an acrobat or athlete. Of course he is passionate about the D-One and that's not surprising given his investment in the project and the amount of work that he and his chosen team of people have put into getting, as near as possible, the perfect boat to market. Now it's over to all you people out there to be rude, critical, racist or whatever without response because I will not get dragged through the depths any more. In short, I have had enough! Rodney |
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blaze720
Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Nov 09 at 6:12pm |
Greame
The spinnakers are available .... still. You were told that the CA' s technical officer Peter Barlow had them months ago. I would have assumed you would have made contact by now - contact details on the CA website. Why keep asking me ? They have another request currently from an association member along similar lines and I think it will now be done. (you know that surely anyway don't you as you are on the CA forum - so why comment here ?). I am not the CA, I only advise, but if they have spare equipment and are happy to supply you that's just fine here. As for the saleman comment - One of the skills of any 'salesman' is to recognise a tire kicker at 100 metres. Their role is to deal with potential customers. The "I would have ordered if only 'carrot danglers' of life" are best left to competitors in my 'limited' experience. For the last time - I'll support any person or group who wants to try things out - have done in the past and will do so in the future I'm sure. We've developed a particular configuration to deal with a certain segment of the market. The Blaze makes a very competant spinnaker platform - but sad gits that we are we not content with merely competant as it would not be significantly faster than Halo or even Blaze on occasion or the current developments by others. Insufficient differentiation would result. It requres a different hull and when done that is what will be used. The End. . Mike L. |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Nov 09 at 5:22pm |
I also meant to add (forgot sorry) GRF the nosediving thing is easily solved by sheeting in and bearing off....honestly it does. Tim
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Nov 09 at 8:50am |
Didn't GRF complain about a pointy bow in the new Rooster boat, and now a blunt one in the Blaze? What sort of bow do you want - you are running out of options...How about the Topper style spoon bow?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 09 at 10:11pm |
GRF, The original mark one blaze as per my piccy elswhere in the forum used to be a fully batterned beast of a mainsail. Perhaps they thought they needed an M7 Eiffel tower strength mast. I think I have mentioned before, perhaps they might have been better off with a carbon bendy mast, as the power was way too much.That's why they changed it. We found ourselves reaching downwind without a kite. Now they have changed it you can find yourself wanting to go dead downwind more becasue the stays are now slack, they used to be under tension. When we were reaching downwind we tended to get on the plane quite early and didn't worry too much about the flat bow, now of course, its flattness comes into play.....unfortuneatly. I think you are right about the kite, it's been mentioned for a long time, however Mike has explained that one, right or wrong. That's why I moved class again....ever chasing the perfect boat! |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 09 at 8:33pm |
I have twice asked you for the spinnaker kit you had and I'd have bought
a new sail. You twice told me the guy was on holiday.. That was when I was still interested, sadly I've moved on. You might be good at what you do Mike, but being a salesman isn't one of your skills. We've been blown off more than on this autumn, again this weekend. I've got the trap wires on it, I know the mast will take a spinnaker, it's another example of a sail/mast mis match if ever there was, but in this instance in a good way. But then I'm told I've got the 'wrong' sails, Elvstroms are not on the pace. I actually love that Blaze and can get it round without spinning out in a force five now, but down wind in waves, kicker fully off, I'm sat right on the label and still it'll plough in, my next move would be to pointy the sharp bit, I'm sure the bluntness doesn't help. Maybe next spring, maybe I'll hate the Rs100, maybe the Blaze has more righting moment.. maybe the D1 will fit a kick up rudder.. lots of maybes - exciting isn't it? Found a copy of Dinghy Magazine 1980...Not a lot has changed. |
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blaze720
Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 09 at 8:12pm |
Greame
Why not use your time developing your own boat rather than telling the world what is wrong with all the rest ? You were the one who was going to 'show us' how to put a spinaker on a Blaze ... we are waiting ... and we are still waiting etc etc. Just lighten up, and enjoy your hobby. DL painted himself into a tiny corner on 'anarchy' and was flamed to a crisp. The bottom line you argue is that we are all 'wrong' - but we really really don't care. Until you (and Doug) 'put up' your own tangible efforts rather than pontificating via keyboard and throwing ill aimed rocks around you are likely to get both flamed and ignored, in the sense that anything is really changed, as well. What is it down your way - Have you stopped sailing for the season or what ? Any real input is being buried in all the 'noise'. I offered you help to do something practical, and we were and are always keen to help those who want to try something different for real even if we don't always agree initially. You have not taken up these repeated offers so I will argue your comments and views are now slightly devalued. Your comments also often appear naive and/or provacative and seem to have little to do with 'winning' others over to a point of view. We are not 'sensitive' as you put it at all .... but your input is not likely to be ignored. It must surely not be a surprise when the 'replies' are in a similar vein and your input can end up being discounted out of hand because of the 'way you say it'. Others have tried different rigs, a blade jib, a spinnaker (2 x groups and now a new group as well), stern sheeting etc etc. They actually do these sort of things away from keyboard, work with builders and CA's, allow others to 'try' and provide constructive input - and occasionally the world changes. Mike L. PS - I raced boards for nearly 17 years before returning to dinghies. Some things are transferable and some are not - not much more to say there. |
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