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Strategy in tide?? |
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Oatsandbeans
Far too distracted from work Joined: 19 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Topic: Strategy in tide?? Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 1:23pm |
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I am a bit confused over when starting with a tide running parallel to the
line should you start at the uptide end (all other things being equal) or does it make no difference as. Most books plump for this (uptide end), but I suspect that it doesn't make any difference. Any thoughts?? |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 2:56pm | ||
Starting in any amount of tide offers the astute tactical tidal sailor
options.. These options rely obviously also on the wind. There is a school of thought that sailing in tide is like riding an elevator it's the same for everyone, but in lots of cases it aint. The lighter the wind, the more the tide has an effect, only yesterday I watched our commodore go from 1st to last in one tack off the line when he strayed into a tidal back eddy, and the funny thing, we're a tidal club, but no-one had even noticed it, yet there it was plain as day described in darker coloured ripples for all but the partially sited to view. Again, in danger of turning a post on a thread into a chapter of a tactical sailing book, as a rough rule of thumb if you can start with the tide pushing against your lee bow, you will move faster off the line than all the boats with the tide on their weather bow. Being on Port or Starboard is obviously the overiding factor, or if you could get a port flyer and have the tide on your lee bow whilst the fleet head off on starboard with a tidal weather bow, you would have to do something dramatically wrong not to beat them to the first mark. There is also another fundamental point to back this, in the seconds after the gun, particularly in a big fleet, you can lose tens of places per second, make an error at the top of the triangle and you maybe lose one or two places, so another reason to grab any tidal gains early on. I'll not stray into course bias, but I would be concerned not to over cook a favorable tide then end up over shooting the buoy allowing boats previously under you to overtake by pointing high whilst you're having to free off. This sort of discussion needs illustrations or a chalk board - I'm available for lectures |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:03pm | ||
Makes no difference so other factors dominate. That is assuming the line is square to the apparent wind not the actual wind as measured on the mored committee boat. |
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radixon
Really should get out more Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:34pm | ||
Surely you would start up tide, so when sailing the beat, you will end up drifting slightly with the tide and not have to correct yourself. Got bored trying to draw a diagram, if you start at the down tide end, you will constantly be batteling tide so may end up drifting further away from the windward mark. At least starting upwid, you can tack and sail with the tide assisting you if needed.
(sorry probably waffling rubbish!) Edited by radixon |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:34pm | ||
This is and idealised situation; if the tide is perfectly parallel to a line that is perfectly square to the apparent wind (not actual wind) then it makes no difference. I refer you to mark Rushall's excellent book Tactics. What I am calling apparent wind he calls sailing wind and it's the resultant experienced wind which is made up of the actual wind over the land as experienced on the commitee boat and the tide. If the line is layed square to what the race officer experiences as wind on the committee boat start at the down tide end. A good race offcier would know this and drop the pin back to compensate for this. Fig 6.5 on page 72 illustrates this ... |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:46pm | ||
Deletes lengthy post.
Is it worth arguing the point? I suppose it's why there can only ever be one winner.. |
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FireballNeil
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 654 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:53pm | ||
On the topic of tides, can someone tell me the basics of Hayling tide? Ive not been before, I have hardly sailed in tide and Im going this weekend! |
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Neil
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Phil eltringham
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: England/Hitchin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1105 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 3:54pm | ||
This assumes all other things are equal!: If the tide is at 90 degrees to the wind i'd say start at the right hand end of the line every time. If its going right to left, starting at the right hand end means you can tack off earlier and get the lee bow up the first half of the beat and hopefully cross the fleet later on. If its going left to right, need to be carful you don't get pushed onto the committee boat, but you'll start with lee bow on startboard (along with everyone else), but at right hand end, have a better chance of clear air. I'm probably wrong about this so comments please...
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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 4:09pm | ||
At Draycote I am sure that is always the case ... but in some instances tide could be the most important factor at the start. I think many people don't understand the difference between the sailing wind the competitors experience and the true wind the race officer experiences. Without understanding this I think people will never be able to win at a tidal venue. |
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Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 4:58pm | ||
All covered in Mark's Book. |
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