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RRS 2009-2012

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 3:19pm
We had a interesting time at the last Laser Qualifier. We usually have a jury for rule 42 (yellow flag) but instead we had an umpire (with red and green flags)!
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Spyderman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

We had a interesting time at the last Laser Qualifier. We usually have a jury for rule 42 (yellow flag) but instead we had an umpire (with red and green flags)!


Jon, can you get me in touch with the umpire/judge at that event? I'm interested in the rules he was using to decide which rules to flag for and which not...

Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 4:58pm
The Umpire was Bill Brockbank, sorry I do not have any contact details but I could try and get them at the next event...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 5:10pm

At the Irish SB3 Nationals I was on the water judge. In adition to judging Rule 42 the SIs permited me to wave a yellow flag and hail an infringing boat. In effect this was an on the water jury protest. All boats so hailed took turns.

It worked very well, in so far as the competitors were all happy. There have been too many infingements and broken boats in the class recently (and not enough protests). Even the winner, in his aceptance speech, said thank you!

I was lucky, in that the 4th boat round the 1st windward mark came in on port and fouled a starboard tack boat. I whistled, she took turns and lost about 10 places. Competitors took care after that. Many of them came up to me afterwards and said that rule observance was the best they had ever seen at an SB3 event.

However, I feel that this system does remove the self-policing aspect of rule enforcement. I would be much happier acting as umpire - reacting to boat on boat protests as we do in match and team racing. The rules for partialy umpired team racing would be adequate.

One incident at the very last finish of the event, almost the last boats to cross the lineillustrates my reserves. A starboard boat was laying the pin end of the finish when a port tack boat tacked very close to leeward. It was almost certainly an infringement. However the ROW boat did not bother to protest, but instead criticised me because I did not whistle.

I do not want to go down that route - unless, as in medal races we can have adequate numbers of umpires on the water. However, as umpires are thirsty creatures, and given to eating heartily, especially when the club is paying, competitors would have to accept a substantialm increase in entry fees.

Gordon

 

 

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

The Umpire was Bill Brockbank, sorry I do not have any contact details but I could try and get them at the next event...


RYA Race Officiails Website
- go to page 5.. et voila
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Spyderman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 8:03pm
@ Laser4000; Thanks for the link! I'll contact Bill directly

@ Gordon: I'm a member for a working party for Kiel-Week were we want to try something similar. Can you send me the SI for the SB3 Nationals to look at how the wording is for direct judging in a fleet race?
Please use the link in my signature and you'll find an E-mail address on my blog.
Thanks.
Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 08 at 8:59am

Spyderman,

the relevant SI was:

15. PENALTY SYSTEM

15.1 RRS 44.1 and 44.2 are changed so that only one turn, including one tack and one gybe, is required.

15.2 Appendix P immediate penalties for breaking RRS 42 will apply. RRS P2.3 will not apply and RRS P2.2 is changed so that it will apply to any penalty after the first one.

15.3 To encourage boats to take penalties afloat, protest committee members may blow a whistle and point a yellow flag at the infringing boat(s) when they see what they believe to be a breach of the RRS. They may then lodge a protest if no action is taken by the infringing boat(s).

 

Whilst this worked well I would in fact be happier if a variant of the team racing rules for partially umpired races was used. I believe that race officials are not there to replace the competitors as the enforcers of the rules, but may give an on-the-water decsion should a competitor protest.

 

Another incident at another event was interesting. A boat infringed on the start line, Victim, sailing a borowed boat, hails protest, but does not display a red flag (boat over 6m), however infringing boat does protest correctly. Having observed closely the incident, and as Jury chairman I wanted the incident to come before a hearing. After consultation with RO and another NJ, also on the water, we were worried that the infringing boat would not proceed with protest. We decided that I should protest in order to guarantee that a valid protest was made.  This I did, which encouraged infringing boat to protest. I then withdrew my protest, as soon as hearing began.

Juries don't often protest Part 2 incidents, but in this case the infringement was blatant, tok place within full view of RO and Jury, and was the type of behaviour we do not want to see.

 

Interested to hear peoples comments

Gordon

Gordon
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Spyderman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 08 at 11:54pm
Thanks Gordon!
I would not use the same flag for rule 42 and for drawing attention to an infringement of a rule in part two. That aside, I agree that it would change the nature of racing if judges start to "police" the fleet. I still believe that the first initiative should be with the sailors, except in blatant (possible rule 2) incidents like the one you describe.
The fact that we can't see everything more or less dictates this approach.

Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote deadrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 08 at 9:23pm
Back on the subject of the 2009-12 rules, I notice that Rule 17.2 has gone.
It was a handy rule on downwind legs, as it countered the increased luffing
power leading boats gained from the abolition of the mast-abeam rule.
Going through the lee of a boat in front was a genuine opportunity, and
could not be blocked by the other boat. Merely because few sailors
understand the rule is insufficient reason ( at least IMO) for ditching it.

Comments?
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 08 at 10:05pm
I think a rule infringement under17.2 was quite hard to prove in a protest room, hence why it was removed.
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