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49er medal race

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Vronny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vronny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 08 at 9:19pm

I've just been watching the 49er medal race videos on Youtube and the conditions look dreadful and the sailing a nightmare. But the video of the Tornado medal race is good and gives an excellent impression of sailing as a sport, especially as catamaran sailing may be rather more accessible to the general public (through sailing hols at beach resorts in the Med etc.) than out-and-out hi-performance skiff sailing. Personally I think the range of boats sailed in this year's Olympics gives a pretty good advertisement for sailing - there's the really difficult 49er class at one extreme and then the easier to handle classes at the other - the public can probably see lasers and boats at least similar to the 470 (e.g. Fireballs) when they pass sailing clubs at reservoirs and beaches, and they could think they could have a go in such classes. The only thing that has spoilt the Olympic sailing was the really light wind especially on the early days - but all in all I think it has been great to show the viewing public at least a glimpse of sailing. What we need now is for the BBC to continue their interest in sailing in the run up to 2012.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 08 at 11:47am

Originally posted by RyanV49er

Upper limit is 25 knots constant or 30 knots in one gust.  Not sure if this has changed but it was this last time I checked.  Definately not 15 knots :)

I'm getting old :)
I found it in the class rules, but remembered it wrong?

APPENDIX 2 EVENT RULES

1.1 The minimum wind speed for starting will be that in which the race committee considers the boats have sufficient capability for pre-start manoeuvres.

1.2 Races should not start, or races in progress should be abandoned when:

(a) wind gusts exceed 25 knots for more than 30 seconds.

(b) Wind gusts exceed 30 knots for any duration.

(c) The race committee considers conditions are unsafe for sailing.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 11:29am

Full decision of CAS:

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/1909/5048/0/Award%2 0OG%2008%20008%20&%20009%20FINAL.pdf

5.3.4. ".....In addition, the Respondent has addressed several examples in which boats participated (and were not disqualified) which did not bear the Additional Identification, including an Italian boat."

5.4.7. ".....The Panel finds it also a remarkable example of Olympic
Spirit of the Croatian crew to grant their Danish colleagues such generous
support."

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ITA_Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 1:14pm
Now that the story is completed I would like to put forward an Italian point of view in this discussion.

Surely the Danish team deserved the gold medal for what they have demonstrated during the whole Olympic Regatta, not doubts,

however ..

there are rules to be respected and in the medal race some rules have been clearly broken. The International Jury decide to not penalize the DK team on the basis that they didn't take any advantage by breaking some rules; It's a decision which I respect even if I'm not convinced.

I'm asking my-self in the rules are not fully respected in the Olympic Regatta where have to be respected ....

IMHO the 49er medal race was run in conditions which didn't add anything to this sport, was simply a survival race. Even if the wind was within the limit the sea condition was not at all suitable for this kind of boat. The better was to postpone the medal race to the following day (which was, by the way, an excellent day for sailing).

Last comment. All interventions in the forum are supporting the decision of the Jury, very good. Just think a little bit if you had a GBR and a DK boat instead of ESP and ITA. Would you have the same reactions ?
I already imagine the comments regarding the usual tricky way to win a regatta used by the Italian mafia .....

Ciao and congratulation to the UK team for the results in the Olympic events. 

Massimo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 1:32pm

Originally posted by ITA_Max

Now that the story is completed I would like to put forward an Italian point of view in this discussion.

Surely the Danish team deserved the gold medal for what they have demonstrated during the whole Olympic Regatta, not doubts,

however ..

there are rules to be respected and in the medal race some rules have been clearly broken. The International Jury decide to not penalize the DK team on the basis that they didn't take any advantage by breaking some rules; It's a decision which I respect even if I'm not convinced.

I'm asking my-self in the rules are not fully respected in the Olympic Regatta where have to be respected ....

IMHO the 49er medal race was run in conditions which didn't add anything to this sport, was simply a survival race. Even if the wind was within the limit the sea condition was not at all suitable for this kind of boat. The better was to postpone the medal race to the following day (which was, by the way, an excellent day for sailing).

Last comment. All interventions in the forum are supporting the decision of the Jury, very good. Just think a little bit if you had a GBR and a DK boat instead of ESP and ITA. Would you have the same reactions ?
I already imagine the comments regarding the usual tricky way to win a regatta used by the Italian mafia .....

Ciao and congratulation to the UK team for the results in the Olympic events. 

Massimo

So, which rules were broken?



Edited by Scooby_simon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 1:56pm

Hi Massimo

Surely, had it been the other way around, do I think everyone would protest, since there is no way you would be able to grasp it all (the RRS, NoR, SI and MR), and know what is precedence (who knew that an italian boat had once replaced the hull, and was allowed to?). The timeframe within which a protest should be announced, is rather small, especially given the adrenaline rush you would experience during the medal race.

Would Denmark have taken it to CAS? I doubt it.

I also think the sailors accepted it after the first protest, and the rest stems from the respective NOC's, due to political pressure from above (I seem to recall reading somewhere, that the italian head of CONI needed to produce medals to keep his job (rumor)).

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

So, which rules were broken?

MR13 (in regards to quarantine of MR contending vessels): In place so you can't modify a  boat prior to the medal race (boats are normally not checked and measured afterwards, since the result announced immediately after the race stands, if no protests goes against it). This is why the RC protested (protest 66), to secure (recertified by the OMC) the croatian boat wasn't modified.

Appendix G. (identification): According to the jury: In place to facilitate identification by media and referees. When the OMC and the RC allowed the boat, knowing it sailed with incorrect identification, is it not prudent to penalize it.

NoR4, SI3 (camera): Deemed to be of no advantage. In the conditions of the medal race, would I agree. The camera sits fairly low, and would lower the center of gravity slightly, which might be as advantageous as not having it would be in light conditions. IOW, one can speculate towards what the camera might do, but it surely didn't make the danes sail fast. The rules states: MAY....

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 2:47pm

In regards to rules being "broken":

One rule in place was, that no political manifestations were allowed during the games.

Usain Bolt wore an orange wrist band. Orange is chosen by "The Color Orange" as a color you can use to signal sympathy towards Tibet.

http://www.thecolororange.net/uk/

What about Holland????

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ITA_Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 3:06pm
Lot of things has been written on this subject and I don't want to open the debate again, neither start a flame.

Personally I consider the fact that the Danish entered in the race without that the other participants knows about that was "unusual" , at least for such important event. I also see difficult, if not impossible with such conditions, to advise the participants.

The Jury has decided one way. Any decision would have made some countries disappointed.

I'm more and more convinced that postponing the medal race would have made everyone happy, the Danish would have won the Gold medal without all these troubles, and no precedences were defined.

Italy won in total 28 medals. The CONI claimed before the games between 25 and 30. One more bronze wouldn't change to much (is probably more important a Gold for Denmark ...)  All the rest is speculation and rumors.

Ciao
Massimo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ITA_Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 08 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by golfdane

....
One rule in place was, that no political manifestations were allowed during the games.

.....

http://www.thecolororange.net/uk/

What about Holland????

 

Nice one

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