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49er medal race

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les5269 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by WildWood

So what do the media want to see - the best sailors in the world competing at the highest level and winning gold medals.  It's not about spectacular wipe-outs and high tech boats, its about the competition and the competitors.  Gold medals create media interest. Whats generated the most media interest at the games - Mr Phelps and his medals.

But explain how a sailor (Ben Ainsle, because he is one of the best in the world) could feasably win 7 medals in sailing?

The way it is run you would have to have one race in each class and 30 classes to win that amount of medals. (this probably an exaggeration but you get my drift.)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote AndersDK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 8:03pm

The Spanish Olympic Committee has brought the case to CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sports).

They are "accusing" the jury, on their decision of calling the usage of the Croatian boat for legal.

They'll hang it on various points:

1) Point 21.1 & 21.3 of the sailing instruction, where it is specified, that its allowed to change parts of the boat that are broken. They intepretate, that it does not include the hull

2) Point 3 of the NoR says, that every boat in the medal race should sail with camera weighing approx 3 kg, which the croatian boat didn't carry.

3) Point 13 of the sailing instruction says that every boat competing in the medal race must be quarantined 24 hours up to the race (dont ask my why). The Croation boat wasnt.

4) Obviously the issue of not having DEN, but CRO in the main sail.

With all these points, the Spanish claims that the decision of the jury was not correct.

Against is the ruling of the jury, that basicly takes all these matters into account, but states, that no advantage was gained from an of the "violatons".

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 3:28am
Originally posted by AndersDK

The Spanish Olympic Committee has brought the case to CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sports).

They are "accusing" the jury, on their decision of calling the usage of the Croatian boat for legal.

They'll hang it on various points:

1) Point 21.1 & 21.3 of the sailing instruction, where it is specified, that its allowed to change parts of the boat that are broken. They intepretate, that it does not include the hull

2) Point 3 of the NoR says, that every boat in the medal race should sail with camera weighing approx 3 kg, which the croatian boat didn't carry.

3) Point 13 of the sailing instruction says that every boat competing in the medal race must be quarantined 24 hours up to the race (dont ask my why). The Croation boat wasnt.

4) Obviously the issue of not having DEN, but CRO in the main sail.

With all these points, the Spanish claims that the decision of the jury was not correct.

Against is the ruling of the jury, that basicly takes all these matters into account, but states, that no advantage was gained from an of the "violatons".

 


From the CAS web site: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/infogenerales.asp/4-3-1842-1092-4- 1-1/5-0-1092-15-1-1/

Beijing, 20 August 2008 The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) hereby states that no appeal or application has been filed up to the time of publication of the present media release, at 7pm (Beijing time) on 20 August 2008.

The CAS will not look at the facts found nor conclusion or decision of the International Jury. They look at if the procedure and format have been followed. Only if they find fault in those they might reject the verdict....


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Post Options Post Options   Quote xaheadx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 12:11pm
Press release from CAS:


[URL=http://www.tas-
cas.org/d2wfiles/document/1859/5048/0/Press%20Release%2011bi s.pdf]ht
tp://www.tas-
cas.org/d2wfiles/document/1859/5048/0/Press%20Release%2011bi s.pdf[/
URL]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RyanV49er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 12:44pm
i'm thinking that the Spanish and Italian Olympic committee protests could really damage our sport.  The America's cup scandal is bad enough, but the olympics should not involve lawyers.  The Danish won and they deserved it.  end of story.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote golfdane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 12:50pm

SI 18.7 Breaches of instructions 2, 3, 10.3, 13.3, 20, 21.1, 21.2, 21.3, 23, 24, 25, 27 and 28 will not be grounds for a protest by a boat. This changes rule 60.1(a).

Penalties for these breaches may be less than disqualification if the jury so decides.

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/08_OG_SailingInstruct ions-[5934].pdf

http://www.sailing2008.org/file01/NoticeofRace-OlympicSailin gCompetition.pdf

I simply can't see that the jury has ruled AGAINST the rules. One might disagree with their judgement, but the fundamental rule 3c in RRS states, that decisions by the jury are to be respected, and not brought to other instances than those mentioned in the rules (can't find CAS anywhere).

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RyanV49er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 12:53pm
There's also a rule saying that protests can't be made during the medal race as there is an on the water jury..  Hmmm, I'm no lawyer but I thought they had rules to stop this sort of thing happening during and after the final race.  I.e. Ben vs Sheidt at sydney.  People want a medal decided when the sailors get off the water. not 19 hours or two weeks later.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 4:18pm

However, medals being changed hours or days after is not unique to sailing- for instance, in the 200m Sprint in Athletics the Bronze has been won by the guy who crossed the line 5th- one runner was disqualified (for stepping out of his lane) almost immediatly, and another for the same offence several hours later when the race was reviewed.

 

Then there's the doping scandal going down concerning horses...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RyanV49er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 8:27pm

Yeah this may happen occasionally in a few random cases, but it just seems far more likely to happen in sailing.  The on water umpires were supposed to sort this out in the medal race, shame it hasn't.

And I don't think we can compare this to doping.  That's completely different.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 08 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by RyanV49er

Yeah this may happen occasionally in a few random cases, but it just seems far more likely to happen in sailing.  The on water umpires were supposed to sort this out in the medal race, shame it hasn't.

And I don't think we can compare this to doping.  That's completely different.



Addendum Q:
Q5 PROTESTS; REQUESTS FOR REDRESS OR REOPENING; APPEALS;
OTHER PROCEEDINGS
Q5.1 No proceedings of any kind may be taken in relation to any action or non-action by an umpire, except as permitted in instruction Q5.2.
Q5.2 (a) A boat may not base a request for redress on a claim that an action by an official boat or helicopter was improper. The protest committee may Beijing Organizing Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad (BOCOG) 15 decide to consider giving redress in such circumstances if it believes that an official boat or helicopter, including an umpire boat, may have seriously interfered with a competing boat. The race committee may request the protest committee to consider this.
(b) A boat may not base a request for redress on a claim that an action by an umpire acting under Addendum P was incorrect. The protest committee may decide to consider giving redress in such circumstances, but only to the extent permitted by Addendum P.
Q5.3 A boat may not request redress under rule 62.1(a). The protest committee may decide to consider giving redress under that rule if it believes that an error may have been made. The race committee may request the protest committee to consider this.
Q5.4 A boat may not base an appeal on an alleged improper action, omission or decision of the umpires or the protest committee. In rule 66 the third sentence is changed to A party to the hearing may not ask for a reopening.
Q5.5 (a) Protests and requests for redress need not be in writing.
(b) The protest committee may take evidence and conduct the hearing in any way it considers appropriate and may communicate its decision orally.
Q5.6 The race committee will not protest a boat except for an alleged breach of a measurement rule.
Q5.7 The protest committee will not protest a boat for breaking instruction Q3.2 or Q4.2(a), a rule listed in instruction Q2.1, or rule 14 when there is no damage or injury.

How do you want the on the water Umpires see if a boat complies with a measurement rule? They look for infringements on Part 2 rules and penalize only when a boat protests.
Did ESP and ITA protests DEN? No the RC did.
ITA and ESP requested redress afterwards, which is invalid in a medal race.
You can't cover all eventualities, sailing has too many variables.

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