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So what do I get? |
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maxim
Posting king Joined: 25 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 127 |
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Topic: So what do I get? Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 9:04pm |
If you're thinking of a 3000 to match the above criteria - don't. Unstable, cramped, hard to learn to trapeze and at the same time, rubbish to hike from. Yes they are fast downwind, but so are other boats. Oh, and I've broken two (somebody thought we should try team racing them - v. bad idea!). (sorry any 3000 supporters) Max |
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sailor.jon
Far too distracted from work Joined: 02 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 361 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 9:19pm |
sorry don't know about london. i'm a yorkshire lad
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 10:41pm |
The Magno seems to have more room in it and the same goes for the Vision - they seem not to have so much emphasis on being a performance boat trainer. The front of a VAGO is cramped indeed and not somewhere where you could sit and go for a cruise. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think that fits in with your criteria. If you are going to have a boat as tough as you suggest then it'll have to be polyprop and if its not to be a kids boat it'll have to be a Vision or Magno. By the way polyprop is difficult to break but scratches easily and is difficult if not impossible to get the scratches out. If you did ever break it they need very specialist kit to repair. They are both asymmetrics, I believe, but whether they are suitable for trapezeing I'm not so sure. Something else you should consider, bigger boats are less lively (generally) although faster but have more powerful sails and are thus heavier to handle. The boats you are talking about are not big and so things will happen quickly and sometimes too quickly for novices - this is why Wayfarers make such good trainers. I have to say you are asking a lot and the compromises you will have to make are going to be great so I think you should weight your requirements or buy 2 boats. With 2 boats many of the compromises disappear and you can more easily find boats from older designs and save a lot of money. I sail a Laser 4000 a fairly uncompromising racing machine, but I also have a glass Enterprise which cost £350 with trolly and trailer. Its good for taking out the complete beginner, cruising with the family (4 up), lending to youths to loon about in, taking on holiday and paddling up rivers. Its very good for racing on quiet evenings, mid week. You can sail it, one up, in light winds and stick an outboard on the back. Its very versitile as are many of the older designs and cheap enough to use in circumstances which it may not quite be suitable for. The other tack is an old cat design, tough and stable. I am not suggesting you buy a 4000 however, both you and your crew need to know what you are doing to sail one of those. |
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waldp
Newbie Joined: 12 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 11:22pm |
Thanks for the responses so far. I'm not sure about the idea of two boats. I need to store stuff on my driveway in the winter, and don't have the room. As for a Laser 4000, I do agree with what you say. I've sailed them (and RS600 and RS800). There is no way I would even get my wife in them as a crew. I can cope, but if she is going to carry on getting better without scaring herself daft, then something with less performance is better. I successfully managed to miss seeing the Vago at the boat show (how foolish!) but is it really all that cramped? I know that it has an inverted vang, that gives more room up front. Doesnt that make a big difference? I don't think I am looking for something to go day sailing on, though its very attractive. I suppose that brings me back to catamarans again! Has anyone sailed a Magno. I really didn't like the Topper, and I only hear bad things about the topaz. Is the Magno really so different? I guess the final question I'd ask is about how easy things are to sell second hand. If I buy something and decide to sell it on a couple of years later, how in demand are the various boats? I've not seen second hand RS Visions anywhere (are they just too new) and not many Magno's either. What are cats like to sell second hand? And if I were looking at a cat, which one? I've sailed Dart 16s which are great, but hear that Hobies can submarine if not careful, and then go head over heals. Is that true? Thanks for all the help. Great forum. Great people!!! Ta P |
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ftms
Newbie Joined: 15 Nov 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 05 at 11:44am |
RS200s are good
Can be sailed singlehanded, my brother, weighing 9 stone has. Pretty tough Fastish Easily towed down cornish lanes Easily handed on land, I could pull up the slipway by myself when I was 15. Fun boat to muck around in Good racing if decide you want to race. But as it been has stated in previous posts, dart 16 would be v good. Brother thought it would be funny to run it up the beach, owwww, boat was fine. |
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Garry
Really should get out more Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 05 at 3:52pm |
I thought the Vago was about Lark size and possibly designed as a modern replacement for the Laser 2. But there doesn't seem to be much crew room - there again there's not a lot of room at the front of a 200!
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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redback
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 05 at 10:32pm |
Yes Hobies do pitch pole very easily but this can be avoided by not going out in a 4 or above. They are surprisingly easy to right again. The amount of room in a VAGO and a 200 are not comparable. A 200 is spacious compared with a VAGO. We have scouts who use Magnos at our club - they look good for training/cruising and the not too serious race - not the same sort of boat as a VAGO which is completely aimed at asymmetric training and racing for youth in my view. Unlikely to be as fast as a 3000 mind. |
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moomin
Groupie Joined: 19 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 60 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jan 05 at 8:58am |
I trial sailed a magno, topper were trying to flog them to the sailing school I was working at. As a sailing school boat I had som concerns. Rigging required removal of the forestay once you'd put the jib up to stop it fouling the kite. Not such a problem on a private boat, but to a punter at a sailing school it was far too likely they were going to drop the jib forgetting to replace the forestay and drop the mast onto themselves. The kite system could have been better designed: the shute it so far back down the jib it can only easily be launched on one side,without it going through the slot, could be remedied by sailing dead downwind them the question of unexpected gybes for people learning. It was perfectly managable single handed, even with kite up, the GP shaped hull with massive chines meant in a just it healed a bit the chine dug in and it kept going without massive weather helm. I felt it could encourage improvers to learn to sail badly, and then struggle when they swapped to a boat that did need to be kept upright. Afraid I've not sailed the RS vision to compare it. These are just my thoughts we only had the boat for a day with time there may be ways round the problems we encountered. |
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Moomin
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waldp
Newbie Joined: 12 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jan 05 at 8:17pm |
Ok guys, thanks for all the advice. It does sound like a dart is the best option. Any one got an idea how much they weigh, and whether they can go on a car roof. Easier to do that than tow it! I think the only downside to a dart is that its a bit splashy(!) and doesn't tack very well (slow to go round). So, if I was looking at a cat, is the general opinion that a dart 16 is the best option, or something else. I can sail darts. and have trapezed off them. I've never dunked myself on one, so I have no idea about how easy they are to right. Let us know your thoughts, and also if there are any other boats you would suggest. And once again, thanks! P |
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*GM*
Posting king Joined: 19 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 122 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jan 05 at 10:31pm |
Might be struggling to car top one - they weigh something like 135 kg. And there's the question of what you do with the mast - it isn't a two piece one as far as I'm aware.
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