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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 9:02am

Also missing from the list is the Vortex.

But what is on their website is a surprise - the Laser 2. One of our members broke his Laser 2 mast last year and lost his rudder. He was unable to get replacements from Laser.

So how many other manufacturer led classes have also stopped manufacture - the Boss, Spice????

We will see what happens to the Dart 15 with its change of builder.



Edited by Contender443
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mpl720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mpl720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 11:53am

" They're not in it for the good of the sport though - they're in it to make money.And I still say the eps is a better boat than the Blaze (which sure as hell wasn't "carefully thought out")!

Well of course manufacturers are in it for the money - it's the driver for a lot of good as well as bad so cannot understand the point here .... 

As for the Blaze, biased as I am, I have to say that many other boats are refined from the original.  Where would the Enterprise or Fireball and a host of other traditional 'one-designs' without refinement over time ?  It's not some sort of sin surely ! The Blaze always had real underlying potential and I think the association in conjuntion with White's and Sobstad were able to realise it fairly quickly - result: happiness all round.  It's common knowledge that other manufacturers 'one-designs' have also been refined as well over time - Laser (sails and eventually controls) RS 400 - (later mainsails are significantly better cut) RS 200 (spinni system and mainsail) and we can go on - but all this is for the good of the owners and the suppliers should be cheered.  We expect it from providors of virtually every other item so what's really bugging people here ?   

The EPS was nearly right - but the wing system was simply too low and from an engineering point of view would  be difficult to improve (Yes - I have sailed them as well - over a few waves and THROUGH far too many !!), the rig was really quite nice but was difficult to 'tune' to different weights being unstayed. The dagger - not as practical as centreboard.  So it was a good boat but had a couple of problems that were difficult to live with for many people - does not mean the class enthusiasts should give up though  .... - if Laser really have given up and can be persuaded - take 'control', acquire the moulds, find someone to manufacture, and sort out the wings, make sure its a cheap upgrade path for existing owners ....  

If associations are independent, strong minded and practical and the boat has underlying virtues the class will prosper unless the manufacturer is determined to kill it off or is plain dumb.  Topper come in for a lot of stick - much of it justified on occasion - but were also prepared to work with the Blaze class association to refine it, other manufacturers could be accused of walking away too often and far too early form fledgling classes.  It's also worth mentioning that the Blaze rights are owned by John Caig of Fireball fame and Ian Howlett - and that to all intents and purposes Topper/Whites are licensed to produce/market the boat.  This means that John and Ian effectively have ultimate control - a useful balance as in theory others could manufacture if they both decided that it was desirable.  As an association I think we have the best of both worlds - of being a manufacturers class but without that manufacturer enjoying totally unlimited control.  I'll also argue that its good for the manufacturer - the 'customer' can exert pressure and with the Blaze that has meant more new boats each year (and unfortunately a shortage of used ones)  

So if you want your manufacturers 'discard' class to survive and prosper (and we expect to see more nearing the brink in the coming years) - and you think it has the real potential long term - don't moan, do something about it, get angry and get going.  

Anyone want to try a Blaze then ?  Get in contact with the association.

Cheers - Mike Lyons '720'  

 

 

 

   

 

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sailor.jon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailor.jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 2:49pm
going back to the "VAGO"  the boat has 2 rigs, the vago and the vago XD, the standard boat costs 3995.00 the XD (the only difference appears to be "engine size") costs 4495.00
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lozza View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 9:08am

Was at the boat show on saturday and had a look at the VAGO.  It has to be one of the worst designs that laser have come out with (this is BAD considering it was sitting next to the funboat).  The controls seem feeble for the predicted performance of the boat and it weighs an absolute ton!!!  Added to this, the sail shape doesn't seem too efficient, i was left in confusion as to what area the boat was marketed.

I asked a laser sailsperson and they claimed that it was aimed at the junior assymetric fleet and beginner adults.  Must be the replacement for the 3000 but not as good, just looks fancier to attract newbie sailors.

Better to get a decent second hand 29er IMHO.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lazorsharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 5:54pm

looks like a bigger 3000, but could be 1 or 2 man boat... less tippy anyhow!! it has a nice hull shape good to trapeze off! the name is a bit weird. it needs to be a bit more snappy

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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 12:03am

I had a look at one in the flesh today.  Nice quality moulding, not my sort of boat but could be quite a lot of father/young son teams might like it.  It could be that it gets them into the sport and then they buy a proper boat.  It might make a good trainer for youth before going into the 29er.

Topper have a new boat out too.  It's sort of RS400 size and not polyethylene like the Magno, more of a serious racing machine, non trapeze and very wide.  It looks heavy and the rig looks the same as the Magno but I'm told it's not.

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sailor girl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailor girl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 5:23pm
Please redback...not Magno.....Mango
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pico master View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pico master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 05 at 7:54pm
the vago looks awesome, how can you lot not like it? its a small full pelt designed by the best dinghy designer in the country and is set to be the next big thing. its the next step up for someone moving up from an RS200 to a more high performance boat, im getting one and so should you!
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 05 at 8:07pm
yes but your name is pico master...   suggesting you like that bullet proof crap

Edited by Harry44981!
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 05 at 8:19pm

Originally posted by pico master

the vago looks awesome, how can you lot not like it? its a small full pelt designed by the best dinghy designer in the country and is set to be the next big thing. its the next step up for someone moving up from an RS200 to a more high performance boat, im getting one and so should you!

Blimey I bet all those RS200 owners are chuffed to bits by that piece if news

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