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Events for 2012...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 07 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

just for a laugh http://www.monohullandfatoldmensailing.org/




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laser4000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 07 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by gordon

The heavy weight classes are essential if sailing is not to become a sport for only a limited range of athletes. Horse racing jockeys, gymnasts and basket ball players are all chosen, in their own way, from a limited range of sizes.

Athletes in sailing are grouped according to weight, choosing the appropriate class in which to sail. The result is that if your are configured for one weight range it is next to impossible to change.




Not strictly true - you just need to be more imaginative with boat selelection. The laser4000 is a class where a 100kg helm, an 80kg helm and 60kg helm can all race level pegging with the weight equalisation turned on..and this is not just the sails pitch -  At the Europeans at Garda in '03 the 1st 5 helm weights were 80kg, 100kg plus, 58kg, 77kg, 95kg..

Now I'm note suggesting Laser 4000's should be an olympic class - but I'm just disproving your argument about corners of weight range..

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 07 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Norbert

Sailing is a western sport.

Tell that to anyone who goes to an Enterprise Worlds for instance. And I seem to remember a Hong Kong sailboard gold medal. The first trapezes were used on Malaysian racing canoes back when toe straps were considered unsporting in the west, and have you seem the *amazing* racing Dhows they have in the Middle East?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 12:59am
Originally posted by GarethT

Personally, I think they should've ditched the men's Laser, re-classified the Finn as the men's singlehander and kept the Tornado. Laser sailors could either bulk up (we know that can be done) or sail one of the plethora of other midget's boats in the olympics.



I would like to hear you tell Tom Slingsby, Schiedt, Blackburn or Ainslie that they are "midgets". One reason I have little sympathy for the heavy sailors is that they have a tendency to insult and abuse anyone who happens to be lighter than they are.

Not all Laser sailors can bulk up. Blackburn took years to bulk up to Laser weight, and since he has a PhD in sports science and spent years at the Australian Institute of Sport (an outstanding institution) it's obvious that he had the best advice on how to do it. Telling him he should grow a further 10kg+ is not intelligent.

The Finn sailors who now say that fairness demands a place for heavy sailors were quite happy to ignore the light sailors for 40 years. It is sheer hypocrisy to simply say that it was okay for lightweights to be ignored for 40 years and now say that fairness demands that the minority of heavy sailors have to be catered for.

And pray tell, why keep a 1950s design, which is longer and more expensive but barely faster, in the Games and drop the newer, lighter and cheaper Laser? Sure, the Finn allows you and your team to spend lots of cash developing new sails - but if development skill is what we are trying to reward why not allow more development? Why reward just the limited development available to a Finnster? And remember, for many years the Finn was a strict one design at the Games and the Finns used to say that only a strict, identical OD was a true test of skill!

Why sail a class that is never seen in most sailing centres, instead of the world's most popular adult's boat?

The Finn is a great class, but the abuse and hypocrisy of some of its exponents is hard to take.


Edited by Chris 249
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 8:02am
The fact is far more Men fit into the weight range of the Laser than the Finn...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 8:24am

And on the issue of weight...weren't the laser boys complaining they were struggling at sail for Gold this year as they were all at their China weight!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 8:40am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by GarethT

Personally, I think they should've ditched the men's Laser, re-classified the Finn as the men's singlehander and kept the Tornado. Laser sailors could either bulk up (we know that can be done) or sail one of the plethora of other midget's boats in the olympics.



I would like to hear you tell Tom Slingsby, Schiedt, Blackburn or Ainslie that they are "midgets". One reason I have little sympathy for the heavy sailors is that they have a tendency to insult and abuse anyone who happens to be lighter than they are.

Maybe I should've put a  after the midget bit. I'm a 'midget' myself so apologies if you feel insulted or offended.

For every 'midget' insult from a heavy boat supporter, I have seen as many 'fat'/slow boring/coffin insults from the supporters of our lighter brethren. Maybe we all need to lighten up.

Personally I think the finn is a nicer boat than the laser, but my post wasn't aimed at selecting the best of the two, it was about finding a compromise to accomodate as much of our sport as possible.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 9:55am
Originally posted by GarethT

Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by GarethT

Personally, I think they should've ditched the men's Laser, re-classified the Finn as the men's singlehander and kept the Tornado. Laser sailors could either bulk up (we know that can be done) or sail one of the plethora of other midget's boats in the olympics.



I would like to hear you tell Tom Slingsby, Schiedt, Blackburn or Ainslie that they are "midgets". One reason I have little sympathy for the heavy sailors is that they have a tendency to insult and abuse anyone who happens to be lighter than they are.

Maybe I should've put a  after the midget bit. I'm a 'midget' myself so apologies if you feel insulted or offended.

For every 'midget' insult from a heavy boat supporter, I have seen as many 'fat'/slow boring/coffin insults from the supporters of our lighter brethren. Maybe we all need to lighten up.

Personally I think the finn is a nicer boat than the laser, but my post wasn't aimed at selecting the best of the two, it was about finding a compromise to accomodate as much of our sport as possible.

No worries, and sorry - I have a short fuse on the "midget" and anti-Laser posts. The Laser's only one of the classes I sail but I'm becoming a passionate supporter of it because in many places it seems to be doing so much to keep sailing strong. You're right, we need to lighten up and let each other enjoy what we like to sail.

And at 5'7" I can only dream of being tall enough to be one of the big-rig "midgets"!
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by GarethT

Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by GarethT

Personally, I think they should've ditched the men's Laser, re-classified the Finn as the men's singlehander and kept the Tornado. Laser sailors could either bulk up (we know that can be done) or sail one of the plethora of other midget's boats in the olympics.



I would like to hear you tell Tom Slingsby, Schiedt, Blackburn or Ainslie that they are "midgets". One reason I have little sympathy for the heavy sailors is that they have a tendency to insult and abuse anyone who happens to be lighter than they are.

Maybe I should've put a  after the midget bit. I'm a 'midget' myself so apologies if you feel insulted or offended.

For every 'midget' insult from a heavy boat supporter, I have seen as many 'fat'/slow boring/coffin insults from the supporters of our lighter brethren. Maybe we all need to lighten up.

Personally I think the finn is a nicer boat than the laser, but my post wasn't aimed at selecting the best of the two, it was about finding a compromise to accomodate as much of our sport as possible.

No worries, and sorry - I have a short fuse on the "midget" and anti-Laser posts. The Laser's only one of the classes I sail but I'm becoming a passionate supporter of it because in many places it seems to be doing so much to keep sailing strong. You're right, we need to lighten up and let each other enjoy what we like to sail.

And at 5'7" I can only dream of being tall enough to be one of the big-rig "midgets"!

Odd how we seem to be scratching around for solutions to this problem ... I have never seen people so hacked off about a decision by ISAF.

Has anyone on done any research to understand IF there is any process or constitutional issues that would allow this situation to reconsidered by the ISAF World Council?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Franco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 07 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Franco

Actually you can......read below.

Below a statement from Sail NZ daily e-newsletter which I receive each morning.

On the ISAF front, criticism of the chosen event card for 2012 Olympics seems to be near universal. The process for reversal/change is reasonably simple. All that is required is that a National Authority puts forward a submission advocating that a change be made and get support from other National Authorities for that move.

While that might not suit those who like bureaucracy and order, the unfortunate reality of life, is that we live in a democratic society. Bad decisions can be undone provided they have majority support. And with the close voting of last week, it only takes a couple to jump the fence (or not abstain from voting) and the deal is done!

 

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