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Ranking as a Starter

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Bender View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ranking as a Starter
    Posted: 20 Sep 07 at 7:43pm

Many years ago, there used to be a rule (#50) entitled "Ranking as a Starter". It's not there any more, but does anyone know

a) When did it disappear?

b) Why did it disappear?

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Black no sugar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 12:57am
Yep, it would be interesting as background info for the enormous storm in the little teacup that is LancingSC.


And I'm in trouble again...


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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 6:56am

Possibly you are looking for this?

A9 RACE SCORES IN A SERIES LONGER THAN A REGATTA

For a series that is held over a period of time longer than a regatta, a boat that came to the starting area but did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than the number of boats that came to the starting area. A boat that did not come to the starting area shall be scored points for the finishing place one more than the number of boats entered in the series.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 8:24am

Thanks Stefan - aware of that one! It's specifically the "Ranking as a Starter" that I'm after, just for interest...

A bit of background to support BnS's post...

We (Lancing) have a Sailing Instruction that says...

The minimum number of starters in any race is 2 boats

On Sunday, 3 boats came to the starting area for the Topper race. One of the boats (a novice) managed to start with the previous start and was therefore OCS big time. The second boat had gear failure just before the start and retired. The third, our own BnS, started and sailed the course to win.

Unfortunately, the view was taken later that as the OCS and RTD boats are not "starters" according to the RRS definition of "starting", although they were "racers" according to the RRS definition of "racing", the race should not count due to the SI. BnS has sought redress , and the discussion rumbles on in our Sailing Committee forum.

 



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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 9:23am

Well I'm supporting BnS.  Go girl .

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 10:01am
Is there a time limit for starting in the SIs? If not did the Topper then start properly at the start of Lap 2? Otherwise I fear that BNS will have trouble gaining redress. Of course BNS could apply for redress on the grounds that the english of the SI is so poor as to make it essentially meaningless!

It certainly seems as if the intention of the SI as written is that OCS boats don't count towards competitors. This has interesting and perhaps inconsistent effects, depending on your scoring system.

If I were on Lancing's Sailing Committee I'd suggest that the SIs refer to competitors as being more consistent. We do that at our club, and we have decided that the whole reservoir counts as the start area, so basically if you get off the bank you count as DNS not DNC.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by JimC

If not did the Topper then start properly at the start of Lap 2?

Start A boat starts when, having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, and having complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, any part of her hull, crew or equipment crosses the starting line in the direction of the first mark.

Unless the Topper went around lap 1 very quickly, I don't see how it could satisfy the requirement to be entirely on the pre-start side at the starting signal.

In the absence of any other definition, surely a starter is a boat that starts in conformance to the definition above. It would appear BNS was the only starter.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 12:41pm

I think the answer is A9 ... it says "a boat that came to the starting area" ...

In this instance 3 boats came to the starting area so we have a race on ...

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

At club level every effort should be made to encourage paticipation; if 3 boats launched and only one managed to finish for what ever reason that's a result.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 1:26pm

OCS is a start - albeit an illegal start, so there's at least two starters in that race. Ask some questions: What score was the early starter awarded? OCS or DNC?  What would have been the outcome if the early starter was only 5 seconds early instead of 5 minutes and a race (on the water) had ensued? What score was the retiree given. In my view it should have been DNS, not DNC, because he 'came to the starting area'.

I agree with the view that racing should be encouraged - and the club's attitude doesn't appear to do this. The SI's need changing...

Just my 2p worth...

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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 2:23pm
I'm with Rick on this one, and apply the same method as mentioned by JimC at my club (Thornbury).
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