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Ranking as a Starter

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

I can see no definition in the RRS of the term "Starter"

Its in the definitions section at the end. Stefan quotes it on page 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 7:53pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260

I can see no definition in the RRS of the term "Starter"

Its in the definitions section at the end. Stefan quotes it on page 1.

That is the definition of a start

http://sailing.org/tools/documents/Definitions-[483].pdf?PHPSESSID=fc4ad1b5395d0f761b7da8322844caa1

The SI referes to starters ...

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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 8:24pm

What ever the legal rights and wrongs, it seems stuffy, beauracratic non-sense to deny BNS a race.  As ameteurs who do this for fun, having made the effort to go racing why then tell them they wasted their Sunday morning?  Hardly encouraging, is it? 

At any rate, my take is that any boat that counts as a racer, must also qualify as a starter.    I don't believe you must have started to be a starter - just have the intention of starting? Any boat that has signed on and and is afloat at the prep signal is racing and is therefore a starter.

http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 07 at 9:17am

I may be wrong but didn't the AC have this argument as to what a starter was in the 70s or 80s? I think they declared that a boat in order to be starter had to be afloat in the start area, defined, at the preparotory signal and that in order to score points ie a win either boat had to start the race by crossing the start line....... Just one of those arguments that occured between multi millionaire american lawyers!!!!

looks to me if the SIs certainly need a revisit

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 9:11am
SI's are often multi-layered documents that reflect the long history of racing in a club. Instructions are written to solve a temorary problem and then get locked in to subsequent versions. Having spent about 15 minutes re-writing our club sailing instructions, then a whole winter negotiating with class captains, stubborn members of the club and discovering had made a significant rule change concerning elegibility without posting it on the website... I have some notion of how complex this process can be.

I firmly believe that SQIs should refer to the ISAF template as far as possible. If any variation is to be made then the instructions should be written using the language and the terms employed by the ISAF template.

A useful excersise is to define exactly what the club wants, then write an instruction to provide that using ISAFese. In this case does the club wish it's race scores to reflect the number of boats that made the effort to come to the starting area (in which case the definition of  DNS will serve as a model) or only to those that started according to the ISAF definition.

Let me have a copy of your SIS and I would be able to suggest a possible text.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bigwavedave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 5:33pm
I think the issue that needs addressing is what was she doing out of the kitchen in the first place?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 6:18pm

Originally posted by gordon

SI's are often multi-layered documents that reflect the long history of racing in a club. Instructions are written to solve a temorary problem and then get locked in to subsequent versions. Having spent about 15 minutes re-writing our club sailing instructions, then a whole winter negotiating with class captains, stubborn members of the club and discovering had made a significant rule change concerning elegibility without posting it on the website... I have some notion of how complex this process can be.

Gordon

Spent 15 minutes trying to fathum out what RRS ours related too!!!! My sympathies to you Gordon.

As Gordon said many SIs realate to a clubs hitory, and probably haven't really been looked at for a long time. On our Sailing committee we nominate one person to look at them each year and amend if required and 2 of us look through every 4, just to make sure they are current without loosing the history they may reflect.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

I think the issue that needs addressing is what was she doing out of the kitchen in the first place?


Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 6:54pm

Well it went like this today.

The hearing was heard by a qualified race officer who consulted with an international juror before the meeting.

He determined that 3 boats intended to race and that BNS fulfilled here requirements to complete the course under rule 28.1.

Also that our SIs at the club are invalid as they do not change a specific rule and do not speicify this. See rule 86.1b

If you follow this through then there is nowhere in the rules that specify the number of starters. It does however say in Appendix J 2.2.35

"the minimum number of boats appearing in the starting area for the race to be started" 

This should be written into the clubs SIs.

Therefore as BNS sailed the correct course she was awarded a 1st and the race counts in the series.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 1:04am
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