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Ranking as a Starter

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 2:46pm
Yes but....getting back to the original question...when and why did the "Ranking as a Starter" rule disappear? Anyone got any old rule books? I know it was there in '77 , but can't find any of my more recent references.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:12pm

Originally posted by Noah

OCS is a start - albeit an illegal start

No, in the terms defined by RRS, a boat that is OCS has not started. Read the definition, which is posted in this thread.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

Because their SIs refer to the number of starters, not the number who raced. 3 raced but only one started.

I don't think you should pretend the SIs say what you'd like them to say or meant them to say or think they ought to say.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Guest#260

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

Because their SIs refer to the number of starters, not the number who raced. 3 raced but only one started.

I don't think you should pretend the SIs say what you'd like them to say or meant them to say or think they ought to say.

 

I think the definiton of a a starter is different to the definition of when a boat starts ... given the ambiguity (sp?) I'd let the result stand and fix the SI's.

I'd say a starter is someone geting ready to start and after the start they become a racer ... so in this case there were 3 starters (or perhaps 2) ...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:40pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

I'd say a starter is someone geting ready to start and after the start they become a racer ...

Wrong way around. You are racing before the start.

"A boat is racing from her preparatory signal"

Sorry Rick but you are perfectly ignoring clear definitions in the RRS to justify the outcome you consider fair.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 4:03pm
Let's take that further.

I understand that a boat who gets an OCS is not a "starter", OK.

Now, in our club, the sailing instructions state, in the Scoring section:

"Points for DNS, DSQ, OCS and BFD will be 6, or two more than the number of starters in the race, whichever is the greater."

However, in practice, if there are 10 competitors in a race and 1 is OCS, whoever's disqualified, DNS or black-flagged get 12 points, effectively counting the OCS guy as a "starter".

Finally, if being OCS means that the boat did not start at all, why bother about talking about "OCS" in the first place? We should record that boat as a "Did Not Start" and let the race officer add a comment to the results sheet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Black no sugar

However, in practice, if there are 10 competitors in a race and 1 is OCS, whoever's disqualified, DNS or black-flagged get 12 points, effectively counting the OCS guy as a "starter".Finally, if being OCS means that the boat did not start at all, why bother about talking about "OCS" in the first place? We should record that boat as a "Did Not Start" and let the race officer add a comment to the results sheet.

It sounds as if your club is using a scoring system which uses more conventional conventions for scoring codes than your SIs do and the two don't match!

I disagree about marking OCS as DNS. Even if the score is the same they are different situations, and it does no harm to record them as that, and makes the series results more readable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Guest#260

I'd say a starter is someone geting ready to start and after the start they become a racer ...

Wrong way around. You are racing before the start.

"A boat is racing from her preparatory signal"

Sorry Rick but you are perfectly ignoring clear definitions in the RRS to justify the outcome you consider fair.

 

I know that ... this is an issue with their SI's not one of the RRS ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 5:15pm

...but what about my "Ranking as a Starter" rule?

By the way, this has opened up a can of worms with regard to our SI's scoring definitions as well, cos they're at odds with RRS A9, but that's another matter!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 5:22pm

... now look what you've done.

I have gone and got my rule book out now ...

I can see no definition in the RRS of the term "Starter"

The SI's quote:

Quote:
The minimum number of starters in any race is 2 boats

If there is no definition of a "Starter" in the RRS or the SI's then we have to take a view...

My view is that any boats that leave the beach with the intention to race should be considered "starters" regardless of if they actually manage to start correctly ...



Edited by Guest#260
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