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Ranking as a Starter

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 9:24am

...but when was the "Ranking as a Starter" removed from the rule book?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 9:39am
It was still in the rule book in the 1985-1988 version but had disappeared, as such, by  1997. The ancient rule 50 probably disappeared in the 1996 rewrite.

However, in SIs based on the standard ISAF template, and using Appendix A, the difference between DNC and DNS is clear. The rules do not mention a starter, however RRSA9 makes a clear distinction between boats that come to the starting area and those that do not. I would suggest that any SIs that still contain a reference to "starters" replace that word by "boats that came to the starting area".

I would love to have a look at the offending SIs at the origin of this thread.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 10:37am
Thankyou for the SIs.

After a very quick read there are a few pointsthat spring to mind. These remarks are intended to illustrate the thought process involved in preparing SIs:

1. The SIs need to be rearranged so that they are in the same order as the ISAF template. This will prove of value as they then become easier to read, members travelling to other events should (hopefully) find that the event SIs are in a familiar order.

2. RRS does not distinguish between helmsman and other mortals...surely it is the person in charge (RRS 46) who should be responsable for signing in.


3. Replace "starters" by boats coming to the starting area.

4. I am not too happy about the Race Committee having the power to disqualify under RRS 28.1 The competitor may have corrected her error, the course may have been badly written, the Race Committee may have misread the sail number. I believe that the competitor should have the right to a hearing. Competitors always have the right to retire if they believe that the protest is justified.

5. I don't really understand what the SIs want to achieve by SI4.1. If RRS 29.1 applies fully the X flag should be displayed until either all  boats are completely on the pre-course side of the line or its extensions or until one minute before the next start. Do you do anything different?

6. SI4.3 introduces the black flag rule, but without the safeguards included in RRS 30.3. However a General Recall may be due to an error or ommission by the Race Committee. It seems unfair to impose the black flag rule at all times after a General Recall. It may be more appropriate to use any of the 4 possible preparatory signals rather than always use the P. The Z flag is an effective deterrent.

7 I feel that the term "outer limit mark" should be reserved for marks that may or may not be a start line defined by a transit, or between 2 boats, serving to limit the length of the line. The mark at the pin end of a start line is the start or starting mark, the mark at the end of the finish line is the finish  or finishing mark (see Appendix L 9.3)

8 I don't understand how SI2.3 changes RRS32.2. The SI describes standard practise as set out in the race signals section of the rules.

9 Is there any good reason to wait 3 minutes after bringing down the AP (SI3.3)?


I could go on (and on and on) but don't have the time at the moment.

Gordon




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 11:09am

Thanks for the input, Gordon. I think the reality is that we haven't done a complete revisit of the SIs in a while, and it's taken both our own local redress hearing, and your independent view of the SIs to highlight some of the shortcomings. Looks like a job for the winter!

However, just to clarify a couple of things...

Because our club racing is exclusively run from the shore, as opposed to our open meetings that use our committee boat (and have their own SIs!), our start and finish lines ARE bounded by an outer limit mark. Also, because of our location on the South coast, with prevailing southwesterlies, flag signals flown from the clubhouse are difficult to see from on the water, so we have a set of boards. Inevitably that means that we have to run with a restricted set of signals, and I accept that may lead to some SI inconsistencies.

And finally, I'm sure that our club isn't unique in having to use inexperienced club members to run the races some of the time, and even some of our experienced racers struggle when asked to sit in the start box, so we have to try to keep things as simple as possible, which again tends to produce inconsistencies.

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