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Dinghy Development for the mature sailor

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glennhow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote glennhow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 05 at 11:33pm

would those of you who sail classes other than those in the list add to it.

i do belive that some people are more suited to certain classes more than others.  i started it to help me rationalise between a couple of different classes. and i must say the 505 just blew me away with it's suitablity accross such a wide range. and they are fun to sail and had a large reprenstation at their worlds, 102 competitors in Santa Cruz. Countries included Largely USA, GBR, CAN even some FRA, GER and DEN.

as regards the age vrs average weight table, it really is not a very good representation.  the use of the BMI (body mass index) is a more approriate index for heath reasons, which takes into account several variable, age, height, weight etc. iam not a doctor!

Just unfortunate they are not cheaper to get into!

glenn

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Jamie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 05 at 11:53pm

Originally posted by Bruce Starbuck

Nice one Chris. I'm 10kg under the "average" weight for my age. All you Fatsailors should stop insulting people who take care and pride in their health.

And you stop assuming we're fat! When people are tall they almost have to be heavier because our heads are further from our feet than lighter people. 

Also Fastsail boats are sailed by bigger people because they can be not because they have to be. These newer skiff type boats have to be sailed by people who are smaller 

Some of us are also built stockier than others, making us heavier but not nescassarily fat. Some of us also have size in order to do other sports like Rugby and Amreican football.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 05 at 12:09am
Originally posted by Jamie

These newer skiff type boats have to be sailed by people who are smaller 


To be fair, while that's probably be true of the design decisions takem by the manufacturers of the SMOD skiff types (although I definitely felt on the small side the one time I dangled off the wire of a Boss) the true skiffs seem to work with an astonishingly wide range of sailor sizes and ages. Its not intrinsic to the design concept. Julian Bethwaite is hardly a seven stone weakling:-)

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 05 at 12:26am
sorry can't delete unwanted post

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 05 at 10:51am
Jamie, as a 5'7" shortie I don't really mean to be rude to those who are 6'4" and fit. We'll stop calling you guys fat when you big guys stop calling us "dwarfs" and "midgets".


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glennhow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote glennhow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 05 at 8:50pm

lads, i thought this thread was started to help some decide which class he should get into as the person in question could not find a class that met their requirments.

  • 2 handed single trapese boat with an asymetric kite.  Which accomodates those of a more substantial weight.

However there are those who wish to continually just sl*g! other people off due to their physic.  It is quite boring! and ill informed, in other words get off the stage!

Try looking at the strong growing RS fleet.  While I dislike them as a company myself, as they seem to be trying what laser did some years ago with flooding the market with many different designs to suit the various area's of the market.  I must applaude them for their driving the sucess of each fleet on the ground, in the form of running very successfull events.

on the other hand maybe some classes would like to take the the weight issue to the next level.  i propose that sailors should be hanicaped.  this would be simply placing weights in boats of lighter sailors to bring them up to the weight of the heavier sailors.  then all boats would have the same displacement. couple that with a matamatical hiking equalisation a kin to that used by the 49er and laser4000 fleets and the playing field would be equal for all.  (or do these fleets aready include the addition of balast?)

As for the original question, i havn't come accross any 2 handed dingy that has an assymetrical kite and is suitable for 180+kg all up weight.  Good luck searching, but i think the market is possibly just too small for the builders.

Consider trying some big boat sailing, Sailing is Sailing.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 05 at 10:10am
Sorry if my comments re not attacking other people's physiques were read as doing the same.

The 49ers have or are in the process of dropping crew weight equalisation. I think the explanation of the physics is on the Bethwaite page.

One problem with crew weight equalisation is you'd end up with some sailors carrying 50kg of inert lead, while others get 50kg of active flesh helping with roll tacking, pulling in sheets etc. Who'd want to sail a 16 footer with a 124kg hull when it could have a 74 kg hull? How could the light crews even pick it up? Adding wingspan to equalize leverage is a problem because wide wings are harder to sail with.

The shorter sailors are also hit hard unless you go to the extent of equalising the extra leverage of tall sailors (which may work a la L 5000). The coach of the gold medal 49er at the 2000 Games said that one reason the Yanks only got 3rd was because they were shorter than the other top crews. Many sailors can slim down or bulk up, none can change their height.

So can it be done? Dunno. I sail one jib and main boat that (out here in Aust.) can see 132kg crews on the podium in 107 boat fleets in series where 20 knots and big seas are the norm, yet can also see 150 kg + crews right at the front - simply because of the hull shape and the rig tunability.

So how much cash would it take to get Phil Morrison or Andy Paterson or someone to produce a class you could start on your own, specially for the heavier sailor? Or what about starting a movement where a bunch of you guys just buy RS 800s or 49ers or whatever and just sail them in a small class by yourself, with just one string? If you re-used an existing boat there'd be little lost even if the class never got off the ground.






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glennhow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote glennhow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 05 at 9:11pm

is it the case that classes should think about creating weight divisions as in boxing!

i think not!

could an equalisation system include restricting the length of the trapeze wires for the appropriate crews. would certainly be a cheaper method to level the playing field

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 12:30am
Why not have weight divisions? I'm leaving for a national title this week where we'll race in weight divisions; it does reduce the size of each fleet, but it's the fairest way to do it. We all start together, they just extract the weight divisions from the overall result. This an extremely weight-sensitive class so there's no way around it if the class is to keep medium and heavyweight sailors involved.

If you just reduce trap wires, won't you allow the light crews to blitz the field in light airs, when no-one is using the trap?

By the way, the lack of consideration for sailors of different weight goes each way. Formula Windsurfer sailors are generally heavy, and they show little care for the lightweights. Laser sailors are heavier than many people, and until the Radial came up the lightweight just had to accept that they'd get clobbered. I'm the heaviest guy competing nationally in one class and was one of the lightest in another, I can promise you that neither is much fun.


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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 1:08pm
I've just realised what the solution is - a Wayfarer Worlds.  No sorry that was cruel.
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