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Ross View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 07 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Merlinboy

No the 12ft skiff and 18 ft event READ the other posts


whoops, my bad . I guess because both the 18s and the 12's have unrestricted sail area.
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Skiffybob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 9:47am

They haven't asked.

It has possibilities for 2009 though.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fliptop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 9:50am

SkiffyBob's point about TV coverage is absolutley right. The conversations that I've had with TV companies all start with the same comment, "We'd love more sailing content, but..."

The real problem is that they dont get delivered the right content packaged in the right way. Thats why we've invested a lot of time and money into preparing video content that is at least in a format that they can use if they choose to.

The biggest obsticle is often the sport itself; the jargon, the race format, and the lack of promotion to the non sailing masses. Its no good just sitting back and blaming the TV companies for not covering sailing, if we want them to, then we have to change the sport to make it right for them.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 10:57am
I did come across something interesting a few years ago. I was sitting out a day at the Cherub Nationals which that year were at New Quay in Wales. One of the many nice things about New Quay as a venue is that you sail 200 yards off the beach past a breakwater and you are out in the Irish Sea, so racing is close to the shore, and especially close to the breakwater.

So I went out to the end of the breakwater to watch the racing. Being a nosy sod I also had half an ear on conversations going on around me. To my utter astonishment the general public, sitting on the end of a breakwater in Wales, were following the racing! Being Cherubs the boats were brightly coloured and easy to distinguish, and you could hear people say things like "I like the one with the spots and the green and yellow sail", but you could tell that people were able to figure out who was leading as they approached the leeward mark, things like that.

Now I don't know whether the folk there had exposure to sailing or not, but it was quite striking that there was sailing actually succeeding as a spectator sport. I was amazed! What I took from that is thet to succeed as a spectator sport you need small fleets and boats that can very easily be indentified from the shore...



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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 11:36am

I think JimC has a good point here and we have the same following at Ballyholme from visitors to Bangor who turn up with binoculars et al.

One of the big problems with viewing sailing is the fact that sailors are free to pick their own route to the marks. Little overtaking (in a single class fleet) comes from actually going past the boat in front. You tack or gybe off to find better wind/clearer air and find that you are ahead the next time you cross. That's a difficult enough concept to grasp without having a big fleet to contend with. Ainslie/Scheidt worked at Sydney on TV because all the other Lasers in that last race weren't important (other than that Scheidt needed to put 20-odd between him and Ainslie). The AC is successful in a similar way and also because they have onboard cameras and you don't have to be a sailor to marvel at the power of the Grinders and the money involved in the boats.

I've looked at the 12' Skiff vid and I'm still not sure how you take tactics completely out of sailing. If you are on a downwind blast and the boat behind tries to pass to windward you're going to luff him or get completely becalmed as 100m2 of gennaker (I'm estimating but that kite was f in' huge) thunders past. That's tactics and is also the nature of sailing because we all work off the one "engine" (the wind) rather than each having our own onboard.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 2:41pm
Nah, it'a a measly 60sqm...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 5:11pm

It's all very well saying "I don't care then" Turnturtle, but I bet you'd be the first to say yes if someone offered you sponsorship money to fund your boat and your sailing, and herein lies the problem. I constantly here people moaning about the fact that there's no money in the sport. People struggle to fund their boats, clubs struggle to fund the open meetings, and builders struggle to keep paying the salaries.

The only way to break this cycle is through commercial funding, and this only comes through a return-on-investment. If we, as a sporting community, want to break this cycle, we need to be more thoughtful of the needs of commercial funders and provide them with what they want, and if this means doing the odd race that's crap sailing but provides the sponsors, spectators, and media companies with what they want, then is it really so much to ask?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

It's all very well saying "I don't care then" Turnturtle, but I bet you'd be the first to say yes if someone offered you sponsorship money to fund your boat and your sailing, and herein lies the problem. I constantly here people moaning about the fact that there's no money in the sport. People struggle to fund their boats, clubs struggle to fund the open meetings, and builders struggle to keep paying the salaries.

The only way to break this cycle is through commercial funding, and this only comes through a return-on-investment. If we, as a sporting community, want to break this cycle, we need to be more thoughtful of the needs of commercial funders and provide them with what they want, and if this means doing the odd race that's crap sailing but provides the sponsors, spectators, and media companies with what they want, then is it really so much to ask?



The really trick is to do that and not make it crap sailing.

The killer for sailing is the cost of covering the sport. OB's are expensive at the best of times, add to that the concept of water and cameras the the price sky rockets. There's a very good reason Darts and Snooker are broadcast, it's cheap to do.

Add to that the reducing revenue from advertising because of channel diversity ( the unforeseen consequences of the Digital TV revolution ) and it makes it even more important for the coverage to be cost effective.

As technology improves ( as we are seeing now ) it will become easier to broadcast sailing to the new niche channels.

But as far as I see it it will be the technology that allows this to happen coupled with a shake down / restructuring of the conventional broadcast companies / production companies. Not all of which is a good thing especially if you are at all concerned about the quality of TV in general.

Now if you could couple Sailing a 12 footer and some reality TV idea you've got it made. If you could bung some cooking in there for good measure it's an INSTANT JACKPOT!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chas 505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 10:42pm

Personally, I think that 12 footers are the ideal fodder for advertisers, though......

As I mentioned to you guys at Datchet a month or so ago....why do you bother racing to windward.......?  the whole point of your rigs is downwind blasting, so you are actually compromising that by having to race back upwind.......imagine how much sail area you could live with if you didn't need to worry about racing back up to the start line.

Downwind slalom racing, with the TV interviews conducted on the way back up to the start line.

A 2 mile course, with a choice of 5 different angles (2 sail reaches, through to direct runs, with gybing angles.  4 boat heats, building to a knockout/tide ride finale sort of thing.

That could work well, when interspersed with the horse racing on Channel 4, or the cricket....which is what the 18 footers used to do in Aus.

You would surely get Professional crews if you could make that work - just like the ultras from a few yrs ago....but with much less scale due to to smaller crew numbers - and thus campaign costs.

We may all like the tiny variables and subtle windshifts etc; technical boats (and I am worse than most)....telly audiences want to see blasting, crashes, and lifestyle sports.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 07 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

It's all very well saying "I don't care then" Turnturtle, but I bet you'd be the first to say yes if someone offered you sponsorship money to fund your boat and your sailing, and herein lies the problem. I constantly here people moaning about the fact that there's no money in the sport. People struggle to fund their boats, clubs struggle to fund the open meetings, and builders struggle to keep paying the salaries.

The only way to break this cycle is through commercial funding, and this only comes through a return-on-investment. If we, as a sporting community, want to break this cycle, we need to be more thoughtful of the needs of commercial funders and provide them with what they want, and if this means doing the odd race that's crap sailing but provides the sponsors, spectators, and media companies with what they want, then is it really so much to ask?



Commercial funding isn't the "only way" to break the cycle. People could sail cheaper boats (arguably, they are). They could go to fewer Opens and concentrate on building hot local fleets. They could (if possible) lease most of the clubhouse to a commercial bar/restaurant/gambling joint that attracts thousands of people who never look out of the window at the sailing, but subsidise it. Of course, you then lose most of the nice aspects of a club......

The problem with the pro/tv model, Skiffybob, is that it never seems to work. Remember, this paradise you envisage has been chased for decades in a country with a similar culture, and it has never emerged.

Part of the problem is that the "cure" makes a disease worse. If you want to televise racing, the average boat sailed by the average good sailor you're trying to help is no good. People won't watch the Frensham Pond Lark Open or whatever.....judging from experience, they won't even watch 12s. They will watch 18s a bit, but they are extremely expensive by their nature. The simple fact is that the boats that have the best chance of sponsorship are also among the most expensive boats, so costs to sailors do not normally go down.

And to get on TV enough, you have to be at the front of the fleet - so that means you have to be pretty much full time sailors. That's expensive. The top guys can get massive funding, the rest of the fleet are left well behind.

 In the early days of the 18's Grand Prix series, costs rose dramatically because the top crews could go to their sponsor and say that being competitive gave them TV time, and to be competitive they needed a tank testing programme that was about the cost of an entire rigged B 18. Of course, the series collapsed under such spending pressure, and it only revived when severe restrictions
were introduced. So the "revenge effect" of the televised GP racing was to kill a decades-long history of open development - exactly the reverse effect to what people had been hoping for.

Exactly the same thing happened in the pro windurfer racing. Gear there is now highly restricted, and you can no longer race anywhere with custom gear. The TV killed the diversity and the wonderful spirit of amateur construction.

They've tried the pro windsurfring circuit, pro 60' tri inshore circuit, pro 18 circuit, ProSail circuit, Formula 40 circuit, PYRA circuit, Ultimate Yacht Race circuit, Ultra 30 circuit, GP 49er circuit......they just don't work in the way people hope.




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