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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Silver Fleet
    Posted: 23 Jul 07 at 12:00pm

Trying to organise a mid-size (40 boats), single class, sailing event.

In order to spread prizes through the fleet better, we were thinking of using a Gold and Silver fleet split for the results (all boats will still start and race together).

Do people think this is a good idea?

Should the Silver Fleet boats be marked in some way? (Allows them to be picked upon by gold fleet agressiveness; but also allows them to race each other better).

Should the division be done before people sail? By committee, or let people decide which fleet they think they belong in?

We could do it based on the results of the first race, and split the fleet down the middle? But if someone really good is OCS in the first race, they would be in the Silver Fleet.

For 80% of the fleet, we could do it based on results in previous Open Meetings and class events - for the last 20% we could guess!

 

Ideas and thoughts are welcomed!

 

Cheers, Chris

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Nessie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nessie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 07 at 5:38pm
with 40 boats, i would avoid a gold / silver scenario.
Works well to sort out an event of 80 plus boats

remember, the guy in 20th is only 20 places off the lead, which isn't that
far. Putting him in Silver fleet gives him no chance of improving on 20th.

If you are planning a single start, there is also no logistical benefit. The
start line needs to be just as long, and the course just as big etc etc.
Results will be simplified too.

If it is like most fleets, there are a few guys at the top with bulging trophy
cabinets, and the rest go away with the scraps.

Best way to 'spread the love' is to award a winners trophy (2nd & 3rd too)
but to raffle all the remaining prizes (a few big or lots of smalls,
depending on resources and sponsors)

To be able to win something from the raffle, you must not have won
another prize, and must have taken part in the event. Possibly separate
helms and crews too, as so often there is one priz per boat, and the helm
gets it!

Draw the raffle at the prize giving. If the prizes are good, it will also
ensure a full turnout at prizegiving and prevent people sliding off home
early.

just some thoughts

Nessie

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Post Options Post Options   Quote David Villiers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 07 at 7:50pm

Race Management.

 

Over the years as our sport has grown so has its formality the latter not necessarily for the better.

 

There is a need for a long look at our regatta organisation not on the water where that is more or less under control, though longer courses, fewer races and a return to the former Olympic Course would be a step in the right direction if backwards! The “improvements” being introduced to attempt to make Yacht Racing a spectator sport at all levels which it patently can never be.

 

Off the water however a crowded regatta programme puts pressure on facilities and it is by no means unusual for early arrivals to be turned away, I recall a few years back 25 Dragons (30’ Long weighing about 3 tons on their trailers plus towing vehicles.) wandering the lanes and alleys of a West Country Port looking for a home for the night!

 

The dearth of crews who in many cases sail in many classes means that they cannot be in two places at once! Arriving tired from the previous regatta having driven tired over our roads, or perhaps worse suffered from air travel.

 

The effort of risk analysis for every event puts a great strain on clubs.

 

A few ideas.

  1. A HIPS package for venues to save reinventing the wheel.
  2. A HIPS package for classes to save reinventing the wheel.
  3. On line certificates and insurance if the DVLA can do it I am sure the RYA and ISAF can! This means these can be checked before accepting an entry. Avoiding the queue at the race office. Scrutinizers can also be aware of any possible problems.
  4. A week or at least a few days between events at venues, (Not always easy I know with pressures on the School Holiday periods for quite a few classes.)

 

The RYA’s excellent  Race Management committee spends a lot of time discussing some pretty esoteric (For most of us.) points perhaps they could spare some time to try to join up the process, making it easier not only for competitors but also for those who give up their time so we can race. To whom we should be, and mainly are very grateful.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 07 at 10:08pm

Originally posted by Nessie


Remember, the guy in 20th is only 20 places off the lead, which isn't that
far. Putting him in Silver fleet gives him no chance of improving on 20th.

I don't think he is talking about splitting the fleets as they do with the larger classes.  Everyone would start on the same line, sail in the same race and have the same opportunity to win.  However a number of people are also in the silver fleet and get to compete for the silver fleet prizes.

We've been operating a silver fleet in the 700 class for a couple of years.  We've not bothered identifying the silver fleet sailors on the water as sorting out stickers etc is unpopular and a right faff.  The race within a race normally comes down to 2-3 boats who know each other anyway.  What we have down in some events is identify the overnight leader by some means.  e.g. Using a specific rash vest or at the recent Nationals a rudder stock custom anodised by Seasure in a 'distinctive' colour. I think this adds some prestige without taking too much effort.

Unless you have a lot of data, I found trying to seed by using previous results to be very difficult and probably statistically unsound.  We adopted a special  'behind closed doors' process of selection which involved the committee sitting down and reviewing the membership list.  Good enough for what is just a bit of fun.

I think it's well worth doing as it spreads the prizes through the fleet but is still based on merit and performance.  We also regularly award 'special' prizes for noteworthy achievements such cuddling a cruiser (not good in a 700), best dismount, furthest travelled, best Sunday morning face, most beer drunk etc

Just remember it is a bit of fun and don't allow people to take it too seriously and it can really add something to the event. 

Cheers

Ian

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Granite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 07 at 1:31pm
I am not sure if I understand the spliting idea.

Once the split is done everyone sails the same race but the guy who is 20th gets a prize but 19th does not?


If it is a regular event then why not have a best newcomer and the best improver from the previous year's event.

after first day pair the top and bottom people and have a prize for the best placed team, this gets the front people to help the back markers.

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 07 at 2:41pm
A lot of classes have Gold/Silver/Bronze/Classic fleets that work the whole year round. Fleet changes occur usually once a year and are dependant on your results for that entire year.

The Fireballs run it this way (and have done sucessfully for many years). The only fly in the ointment is the occasional 'ringer' at the nationals but they normally end up in the gold fleet as they are recognised sailors.

It gives everyone something to aim for. I remember I was please one year because we had been seeded in the silver fleet for the nationals as opposed to the Bronze fleet (this was in an old narrow bow boat too).

It is horses for courses, having fleets works well most of the time but a smattering of 'random' prizes through the fleet keeps everyone interested. Plus let us not forget a lot of people who go to nationals know they dont stand a chance in hell of winning anything they are there for the social side as much as the racing side (and to pick the brains of the front runners).

Paul
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 07 at 2:42pm

Originally posted by Granite

I
after first day pair the top and bottom people and have a prize for the best placed team, this gets the front people to help the back markers.

 

This (most of the time) works fantastically well !

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SUGmeister View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 07 at 3:07pm
Hi Chris, you know that Sailwave can easily manage as many fleets as you like! Probaby best to join the SUG, 1300 members and rising and some of the best brains in sailing management around.

Handy being that we're both at Burghfield too!

cheeers... Simon
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MRJP BUZZ 585 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 07 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by Granite

I
after first day pair the top and bottom people and have a prize for the best placed team, this gets the front people to help the back markers.

 

This (most of the time) works fantastically well !



Yep i agree, I've always known it as Pro/Am and it gives the Pros the incentive to talk to the Ams if there is prizes.

Also another thing that can help is to move around in the dinghy park so all the Pros and Ams are next to each other.
Josh Preater

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